Posted On: Monday - November 3rd 2025 9:39AM MST
In Topics: Economics US Feral Government
ZeroHedge reported on Friday, Halloween Gov't Shutdown Chaos: Air-Traffic Controller Shortages Snarl Airports. Paychecks Go Blank - that WAS the article's title originally - note the URL. ZeroHedge has a tendency to not just update, but nearly upend, their articles, even including the titles.* Now, this one I'd saved is titled Staffing Shortages, High Winds Spark Flight Delays Across JFK, Newark, LaGuardia Airports. It still has this from the original (all bolding in the ZH excerpts here are original):
The fallout from the government shutdown worsened on Thursday afternoon and into late evening at several major airports, as staffing shortages among air traffic controllers led to delays for travelers. Air-traffic controllers missed their first paycheck this week.That was 4 days ago. There HAVE been a lot of delays, even in areas with steady beautiful weather. ATC staffing has been behind due to other reasons (Kung Flu and D.I.E.) too, but this is a new twist.
At the same time, the heads of major U.S. airlines blasted Democrats and sided with Republicans in urging passage of a clean continuing resolution (CR) to reopen the government and avert potential travel chaos nationwide ahead of the holiday season.Haa! Amazing! That's because Trump is so much better at "public communications", if that's what you want to call it, than any modern-times GOP predecessor has been, including in other branches of the Feral Government.**
Also on Oct. 31st, ZeroHedge published an Epoch Times (one of their favorite sources) article saying Air Traffic Controllers Ask Public For Donations As Shutdown Drags On:
Air traffic controllers who missed their paychecks for the first time on Oct. 28 during the ongoing government shutdown gathered at several airports nationwide to ask the public for donations.Public donations, though? Come on, guys. They'll get the back pay later, once the spigot is turned back on. They're not LOSING the money and working for free - this is a cash flow problem.
Yet this talk was a publicity stunt, something these types of unions do on occasion. Air Traffic Controllers are paid fairly well, something for which I don't at all begrudge them. For most positions, the job can be extremely stressful for periods, others only rarely, but many for entire shifts. Ever played Frogger for hours at a time... on one quarter? It's like that... except the machine is spitting out quarters without it having to be kneed in the cash box. How much? This Flying magazine article doesn't have tables and graphs, but it gives a good idea of how ATC pay works.
No, starting pay of $46,000 is not impressive. OTOH, for most, this would be a GREAT time to get lots of overtime pay, as some of these guys have not been showing up. The words here from the NAATCA union president and Sean Duffy, Trump's DOT head, were said for publicity value and politically required sympathy, respectively:
The extra stress of worrying about putting food on the table and paying rent has exacerbated the crisis, according to Daniels.I remember starting a "real job" in an office with a decent credit card debt from getting set up in an apartment, buying some "real job" clothes etc. These guys at least do get paid $23/hr with a food and housing allowance during their initial training months in "Oak City". It's not great, but at least one shouldn't be in the hole starting out.
“America’s air traffic controllers are now having to focus on how do they put gas in their car? How do they take care of their children? How do they pay for child care?” Daniels said. “That makes the system less safe.”
He urged people to contact their congressional representatives to take action and end the shutdown.
“These hardworking men and women are showing up to do their jobs,” he said.
Duffy said many long-serving controllers can survive without this first paycheck because they have planned for days such as these. But many new controllers who are still in training can’t handle not being paid.I really, really hope that's just hype. - MY bolding. Peak Stupidity has written about the many perils of the stupidity of living paycheck-to-paycheck on these pages before***. There are some working families nowadays that almost have to. There are many others that think they do but don't.
“Almost every controller can’t make it [without] two paychecks,” Duffy said.
I'm sure they've got much new amazing software-based graphical help now, but Ground / Tower controllers have to picture how to keep airplanes away from each other as they fly or taxi the most expeditious way from point A to B. The TRACON (Terminal Radar Approach CONtrol) guys and ladies have to keep IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) airplanes separated by required distances or separated by altitude as each would like to go expeditiously from their points A to B, with special requests from many of them for better rides, to avoid storm cells, to get out of icing conditions, etc. as further complications. Except for the occasional helicopter, they can't just stop while you sort things out.
So, if you can't think ahead very well, you shouldn't be doing that job. Since you obviously can, perhaps you could think ahead on the family finances too. I assume they do that pretty well, as this is, yeah, a bit of hype.
Though commercial airline flying is still relatively cheap, the middle and upper-middle class avail themselves of this mode of travel quite a lot. They do have a big interest in a system that operates relatively smoothly and 1st-Worldly. Perhaps they should each make a call to their Congressman to request him work to end the Schumer Shutdown, as I just recalled, DOT Chairman Sean Duffy told them too.
* This is what makes it hard to find articles of theirs sometimes, if you search by words in the old title.
** Rather than make this post longer with more discussion about this, as was the plan, I'll get to that in the very next post... already got the image saved.
*** See Credit? Forget it! You got it? You get it! - - - More on living paycheck-to-paycheck and Poor Feral workers living paycheck-to-paycheck, the 3rd one here having been written at the time of another Feral Gov't shutdown, 7 years back.
Comments:
Dani926
Saturday - November 15th 2025 6:06AM MST
PS How can one be sure any donations aren't going to end up in the hands of DIE hires, who probably do little, if anything, to earn a paycheck at all???
The Alarmist
Wednesday - November 5th 2025 9:42AM MST
PS
Both.
Both.
Moderator
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 4:50PM MST
PS: "When in the US, I do T&Gs at a local airport where they used to train a lot of dot-Indian pilots. They are truly a menace in the pattern."
Is it the language or the flying, or both?
Is it the language or the flying, or both?
The Alarmist
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 4:23PM MST
PS
Air Traffic Controllers get locality pay of up to 38% of their base pay, and base pay ranges up to $175k … the total package caps at $225k, so those in expensive locales are probably doing ok when the spice is flowing.
When in the US, I do T&Gs at a local airport where they used to train a lot of dot-Indian pilots. They are truly a menace in the pattern.
🕉
Air Traffic Controllers get locality pay of up to 38% of their base pay, and base pay ranges up to $175k … the total package caps at $225k, so those in expensive locales are probably doing ok when the spice is flowing.
When in the US, I do T&Gs at a local airport where they used to train a lot of dot-Indian pilots. They are truly a menace in the pattern.
🕉
Moderator
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:42AM MST
PS: Well, my "anywhere near" is relative, I guess. I forgot to say that that Atlanta ARTCC in Hampton, Georgia, is about 15 miles maybe to the SSE of the big ATL Hartsfield airport.
Alarmist, I've got even more info than I had when I posted this one yesterday. One controller in NY got really pissed at some guy cause the guy's English sucked badly - really strong accent* - and he could not understand, even after being given the phonetics, the intersection named Sigh (but there was one more letter - must be 5). The guy said something, then came back on the same frequency over a minute later saying something.
"Oh my God!" said the NY Departure controller, not in an exclamatory happy sense, not in a worried/scared sense either but in very pissed off sense. "You're going right by that fix now, (the one the foreign pilot was now asking about again!) and you were supposed to climb to N thousand!"
* ... and there are people like this flying on American based airlines, because they needed people so bad recently. They don't now, but the pilots are still there sounding like foreigners. This could easily have been a foreign business or charter flight too, can't remember.
Alarmist, I've got even more info than I had when I posted this one yesterday. One controller in NY got really pissed at some guy cause the guy's English sucked badly - really strong accent* - and he could not understand, even after being given the phonetics, the intersection named Sigh (but there was one more letter - must be 5). The guy said something, then came back on the same frequency over a minute later saying something.
"Oh my God!" said the NY Departure controller, not in an exclamatory happy sense, not in a worried/scared sense either but in very pissed off sense. "You're going right by that fix now, (the one the foreign pilot was now asking about again!) and you were supposed to climb to N thousand!"
* ... and there are people like this flying on American based airlines, because they needed people so bad recently. They don't now, but the pilots are still there sounding like foreigners. This could easily have been a foreign business or charter flight too, can't remember.
Moderator
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:35AM MST
PS: Also, M, for some expensive areas, the TRACON and ARTCC (Air Route Traffic Control Centers), the latter of which there are 22 in the US, they are not usually anywhere near the airports for which they are listed as.
I.e. Atlanta Approach/Departure - the TRACON, is in Peachtree City, to the southwest of the airport maybe 20 miles, and nice leafy, cough, cough, area. The "Atlanta Center" facility (the ARTCC) is right near the Hampton County airport, formerly "Tara Field", now called "Speedway" (also right next to where they had the Coca~Cola 500 also, not called that now). I'm not sure how good that area is. They do have a Waffle House nearby, if that's your thing. ;-}
So, in other words, one can live more inexpensively if at a Center(ARTCC) or TRACON, and these are big places that employ a lot of people, even if it's named Miami Center, Fort Worth Center, Houston Center, etc. I would exclude NY Center, Washington Center, and LA Center, especially the latter, from this, as they are in generally expensive areas all around, but I'd have to look up where they are exactly.
I.e. Atlanta Approach/Departure - the TRACON, is in Peachtree City, to the southwest of the airport maybe 20 miles, and nice leafy, cough, cough, area. The "Atlanta Center" facility (the ARTCC) is right near the Hampton County airport, formerly "Tara Field", now called "Speedway" (also right next to where they had the Coca~Cola 500 also, not called that now). I'm not sure how good that area is. They do have a Waffle House nearby, if that's your thing. ;-}
So, in other words, one can live more inexpensively if at a Center(ARTCC) or TRACON, and these are big places that employ a lot of people, even if it's named Miami Center, Fort Worth Center, Houston Center, etc. I would exclude NY Center, Washington Center, and LA Center, especially the latter, from this, as they are in generally expensive areas all around, but I'd have to look up where they are exactly.
Moderator
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:28AM MST
PS: M, for someone in the tower (i.e. doing the tower function, ground control, clearance delivery, etc.) at places like that, I also think you'd need to make a lot or have along commute to somewhere down the peninsula or Long Island, respectively. However, once you've got whatever lifestyle and budget worked out, STILL, will you really miss the house payments or car payments without 2 checks? That's sad if it's the case.
Now, that doesn't preclude one being pissed off about it, as welfare cases were still getting money and free shit till yesterday(?), but more importantly covering lots of extra shifts and the stress that comes with that.
I've got some stories there, but i'll save them.
Now, that doesn't preclude one being pissed off about it, as welfare cases were still getting money and free shit till yesterday(?), but more importantly covering lots of extra shifts and the stress that comes with that.
I've got some stories there, but i'll save them.
Adam Smith
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:08AM MST
PS: Good morning, M!
I don't know about NY, but in San Francisco you can rent a sleeping pod for $700/month.
https://brownstone.live/
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sf-sleeping-pods-housing-19872254.php
Cheers! ☮️
I don't know about NY, but in San Francisco you can rent a sleeping pod for $700/month.
https://brownstone.live/
https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/sf-sleeping-pods-housing-19872254.php
Cheers! ☮️
Adam Smith
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:04AM MST
PS: *the
Cheers! ☮️
Cheers! ☮️
M
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:03AM MST
PS
No doubt there are real examples.
But I suspect that the "paycheck to paycheck" consists of cherry-picked examples.
E.g. I'm not sure how you can be an ATC for San Francisco airport, or La Guardia, without spending more than your salary on housing. Or commuting 3 hours per shift.
On the other hand, housing within commute distance of Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta airport, or Pittsburgh, is probably more reasonable.
No doubt there are real examples.
But I suspect that the "paycheck to paycheck" consists of cherry-picked examples.
E.g. I'm not sure how you can be an ATC for San Francisco airport, or La Guardia, without spending more than your salary on housing. Or commuting 3 hours per shift.
On the other hand, housing within commute distance of Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta airport, or Pittsburgh, is probably more reasonable.
Adam Smith
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 9:02AM MST
PS: Good morning, everyone!
On November 3rd, Dick Cheney peacefully passed into eternal hellfire, joining his fellow demons in lake of fire...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hOHL4UM3S0
Happy Tuesday! ☮️
On November 3rd, Dick Cheney peacefully passed into eternal hellfire, joining his fellow demons in lake of fire...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hOHL4UM3S0
Happy Tuesday! ☮️
The Alarmist
Tuesday - November 4th 2025 1:51AM MST
PS
Paychecks ? We don't need no steeeenking Paychecks!!!
I'm coming to the US for meetings this week, and hope they sta OTJ long enough for me to escape at the end.
Paychecks ? We don't need no steeeenking Paychecks!!!
I'm coming to the US for meetings this week, and hope they sta OTJ long enough for me to escape at the end.
SafeNow
Monday - November 3rd 2025 10:31PM MST
PS
Yep, bigwig flyers (starting with sports teams!) should contact their congressmen. Good idea.
But speaking of controllers. The movie “Aftermath” 2007, stars Arnold Schwarzenegger, as a man whose family dies in a midair collision…
At 18:00: Controller: (Crying, trembling) “Oh my God…how many people are dead?….how many people were on those planes?
Supervisor: Jake, you’ve got to keep it together.
Now imagine that the controller is you. I for one would not be able bear even the tiny chance of HUNDREDS dead on my watch. Controllers. (and pilots) should be paid a lot more. Link to devastated controller:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9isimg
Yep, bigwig flyers (starting with sports teams!) should contact their congressmen. Good idea.
But speaking of controllers. The movie “Aftermath” 2007, stars Arnold Schwarzenegger, as a man whose family dies in a midair collision…
At 18:00: Controller: (Crying, trembling) “Oh my God…how many people are dead?….how many people were on those planes?
Supervisor: Jake, you’ve got to keep it together.
Now imagine that the controller is you. I for one would not be able bear even the tiny chance of HUNDREDS dead on my watch. Controllers. (and pilots) should be paid a lot more. Link to devastated controller:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9isimg
Moderator
Monday - November 3rd 2025 1:45PM MST
PS: Yard work waits for no man!
I'll check out your links, Adam.
One thing I meant to add. This is a career, not just a job. In one of my older posts on living paycheck-to-paycheck, I said that another bad thing about it, is that companies/orgs can treat employees worse and shut them down on speech, PC, D.I.E. complaints, etc. If you will miss a house payment if out of a job for one month, you will do what it takes to keep that job.
If you have 2 years spending money on you - best if you don't live large, and I know not everyone can get to that - you can be more... flexible.
Now, the ATC guys would want to stay in the system at least, even if maybe a change to a different facility is in order. So, this is a different story in that respect. Still, how can you have only one month's spending on you, when you're astute enough to be doing a job like this?
(No doubt, I can see them being a little testy, and very tired, on the job right now.)
I'll check out your links, Adam.
One thing I meant to add. This is a career, not just a job. In one of my older posts on living paycheck-to-paycheck, I said that another bad thing about it, is that companies/orgs can treat employees worse and shut them down on speech, PC, D.I.E. complaints, etc. If you will miss a house payment if out of a job for one month, you will do what it takes to keep that job.
If you have 2 years spending money on you - best if you don't live large, and I know not everyone can get to that - you can be more... flexible.
Now, the ATC guys would want to stay in the system at least, even if maybe a change to a different facility is in order. So, this is a different story in that respect. Still, how can you have only one month's spending on you, when you're astute enough to be doing a job like this?
(No doubt, I can see them being a little testy, and very tired, on the job right now.)
Adam Smith
Monday - November 3rd 2025 12:33PM MST
PS: God afternoon, Achmed!
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-our-florida-air-traffic-controllers
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-air-traffic-controllers-during-shutdown
https://www.gofundme.com/f/feed-houstons-unpaid-air-traffic-controllers
“𝐿𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑎𝑖𝑟 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘,” ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑. “𝑆𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑦 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑑. 𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝐼 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑘𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑎𝑖𝑟 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠, 𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑠, 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑡𝑤𝑜 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘𝑠 𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑒𝑒.”
https://www.syracuse.com/politics/cny/2025/11/understaffed-and-unpaid-syracuse-air-traffic-controllers-pushed-to-limit-during-shutdown.html
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/air-traffic-controller-faa-shutdown-paycheck-rcna240669
I probably have more to say, but it is so beautiful out there and the leaves do not mow themselves. (Ackshually, I have to spray for ladybugs first.)
Happy Monday! ☮️
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-our-florida-air-traffic-controllers
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-air-traffic-controllers-during-shutdown
https://www.gofundme.com/f/feed-houstons-unpaid-air-traffic-controllers
“𝐿𝑖𝑘𝑒 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑛𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝑎𝑖𝑟 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑙𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘 𝑡𝑜 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘,” ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑖𝑑. “𝑆𝑜𝑚𝑒 𝑜𝑓 𝑜𝑢𝑟 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑖𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑠 𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑦 𝑝𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑜𝑑. 𝐵𝑢𝑡 𝐼 𝑑𝑜𝑛’𝑡 𝑘𝑛𝑜𝑤 𝑜𝑓 𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑎𝑖𝑟 𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑓𝑓𝑖𝑐 𝑐𝑜𝑛𝑡𝑟𝑜𝑙𝑙𝑒𝑟𝑠, 𝑜𝑟 𝑚𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑠, 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑖𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑡𝑤𝑜 𝑝𝑎𝑦𝑐ℎ𝑒𝑐𝑘𝑠 𝑜𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑟𝑒𝑒.”
https://www.syracuse.com/politics/cny/2025/11/understaffed-and-unpaid-syracuse-air-traffic-controllers-pushed-to-limit-during-shutdown.html
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/air-traffic-controller-faa-shutdown-paycheck-rcna240669
I probably have more to say, but it is so beautiful out there and the leaves do not mow themselves. (Ackshually, I have to spray for ladybugs first.)
Happy Monday! ☮️