Posted On: Friday - November 29th 2024 4:12PM MST
In Topics: Preppers and Prepping Economics Holiday from Stupidity
We neglected to wish our readers a Happy Thanksgiving yesterday, so you'll have to put up with a belated one, including Adam Smith ASCII graphics and Peak Stupidity HTML-fu (circa 1996, it would be!):
T HA N K S G I V I N G !
Alright, well instead of Turkiye* and tripping out on Tryptophan and sportsball on TV, we had duck instead and I settled in to watch a new 2 hour-long ZeroHedge Gold v Bitcoin debate. I tell you what, it was as if ZeroHedge's Tyler Durden had read Peak Stupidity's critical review of their 1st one and taken it all to heart!. This debate fixed about EVERYTHING I didn't like in that previous, 4-man one.
Big Gold promoter Peter Schiff was the only debater seen also in the previous one. (Bio. info. on him is in our posts linked-to above.) The Bitcoin side is represented by one Robert Breedlove. I didn't even realize it, but should have due to promotions by the latter man only, but it was Mr. Breedlove's What is Money? show that sponsored the debate, hence, no ads about gold. However, Mr. Breedlove's ads were for prepper/off-grid/anti-Regime items and ideas, so I actually watched and enjoyed a few of them. Additionally, I'll say that Robert Breedlove took no advantage in the debate due to his sponsorship.
As in the last one, Peter Schiff was a little (not as much) cantankerous, while his one opponent was calm and collected, and just seemed a little more "with it" with regards to the modern electronic world. That doesn't mean I think he "won" the debate, but he might have convinced some people just by his manner. (He is a salesman, after all - they both are.)
Instead of barely keeping a lid on the cross-talk and letting 2 of the guys rant and interrupt, this moderator, one Keith Knight of the Libertarian Institute, operated in a completely different fashion. He had his outline, made the 2 pundits stick to it religiously, and would not put up with big digressions from the points in question. In fact, near the end, he was too controlling, when he should have allowed another 10 minutes of open discussion, IMO. Yeah, you've got to put up with his wild hair and somewhat effeminate voice. It's all good. He did his job, which made this debate MUCH better.
I also liked that youtube had the general sections labeled at the bottom as one watches, and the page even has this nice outline. Note the commercials - kept in here so you know where to skip, and "WiM" is "What is Money?"
0:00 - WiM Intro
1:06 - What is Inflation?
6:42 - What is Fiat Currency?
16:46 - What Properties do you want in Money?
18:56 - Divisibility: Bitcoin vs Gold
27:23 - Durability and Recognizability: Bitcoin vs Gold
32:59 - COMMERCIAL: The Farm at Okefenokee
34:26 - COMMERCIAL: Heart and Soil Supplements
35:26 - COMMERCIAL: Helping Lightning Startups with In Wolf's Clothing
36:18 - Portability: Bitcoin vs Gold
46:40 - Scarcity: Bitcoin vs Gold
56:41 - 100 Years from Now: Bitcoin vs Gold
1:04:16 - COMMERCIAL: Tuttle Twins: Teaching Kids Critical Thinking
1:05:33 - COMMERCIAL: Mind Lab Pro
1:06:43 - 100 years from now: Bitcoin vs Gold
1:08:55 - Store of Value: Bitcoin vs Gold
1:19:56 - Unit of Account: Bitcoin vs Gold
1:27:17 - COMMERCIAL: Emerge Dynamics
1:28:20 - COMMERCIAL. Art of Alpha Retreat
1:29:34 - Medium of Exchange: Bitcoin vs Gold
1:34:42 - Can We Make a Better Bitcoin?
1:43:56 - Would Anything Change Peter’s Mind about Bitcoin?
1:47:46 - Closing Thoughts on Gold vs Bitcoin
Last time, I did not completely recommend the reader NOT watch, but I noted that the 2 hours would likely be wasted - there was some entertainment but not much to learn from. I HIGHLY recommend the Peak Stupidity reader spend the 2 hours this time (akshully, only 1 hour and 54 minutes). Almost all the important points, possible pros and possible cons, about Bitcoin that I regret were avoided last time are debated here. They get into the real issues, and there's lots of food for thought on some pretty hifalutin concepts. Following the video is Peak Stupidity discussion, including the mention of just a few things left out.
Let me shorten the outline here too:
1) There is a nice trailer, which showed some good highlights (sorry no action - though I think Breedlove could take Mr. Schiff were it ever to come down to it).
2) The points of agreement, difference between money and currency, problems with fiat, evils of Government involvement, etc, were quickly taken care of.
3) The moderator had Mr. Breedlove state the (his, anyway) 5 properties of money, and then he would go back and forth between the 2 men, asking how their "champion" satisfied these properties. This was the meat of the discussion.
4) 3 or 4 abilities, I'd call them, rather than properties of the 2 types of money were debated, with a little argument on the definitions and usefulness of these abilities.
5) They got that 2nd-to-last section (above) from the previous debate, but at least eventually with an answer from Mr. Schiff.
I'll discuss a few points that Mr. Schiff had on Mr. Breedlove, some vice versa, and then some that all 3 of us, plus likely the (other) moderator really don't completely understand.
I felt vindicated on my argument in that last discussion that, no, a form of money that can also have industrial uses is not a good thing. It would mean that changes in technology, the economy, whatever, can cause volatility in the apparent value of it that would not otherwise be there. Peter Schiff claimed otherwise last time, and here too, mostly to try to explain his point that Bitcoin is NOTHING, something that is not altogether false, and gold is SOMETHING.
There weren't many numbers given, but Mr. Breedlove stated that gold has something like 1 1/2 Trillion bucks in industrial use (yearly, I assume) and about 10 x that in value as money. He claimed that because Bitcoin indeed has ZERO industrial use, that makes it perfect money in at least this sense. Mr. Schiff sees gold, with the help of silver, as the perfect money, as he cannot see how anything else could take its place. This made me try to come up with another example of something else with the scarcity, portability, etc. with NO industrial uses, that could still replace gold as money. Apparently, salt was used at some point, when it was still considered scarce. That's not a good example though - tastes change. What else, another metal that is junk but still rare?
That question is just made to try to understand Peter Schiff's point, as gold has a long history already. Both men agreed that the 5,000 or 6,000 year history of the use of gold means something. Mr. Breedlove admitted that the 13 years of Bitcoin history are not much to give anyone confidence for a long future for it.
Mr. Schiff kind of lost his way when he argued that gold could be sent to a foreign country** lighting fast, and faster than Bitcoin. Sure, by electronically sending keys that transfer ownership of gold sitting in a Swiss or other 3rd-party vault, it can, but Mr. Breedlove noted that this defeats most purposes of HOLDING the money. "It's not government, though, it's..." Nah, I agree with Mr. Breedlove, as both gold and Bitcoin are held more closely for good reasons, like the government. In fact, "Swiss" means squat-all now, when it comes to privacy, as the Potomac Regime has reached its long arms across the pond and the Alps. Government can lean on 3rd-parties. They can lean on YOU, but, we'll be prepared for that and won't fold like a Swiss Bank under FATCA.
I wrote before that Bitcoin doesn't have the privacy property as gold does, but it can be transferred world-wide, while gold is good for local exchange. This is very much along the lines of what Robert Breedlove said early on and a few more times: He's weighing the idea of the use of each money based on whether he sees a SHTF future with no electricity, internet and AI*** (use gold), or a "digital future" with all that (use Bitcoin).
One thing Mr. Schiff rightly harped on was the speculation in Bitcoin. Mr. Breedlove mentioned the 4? Trillion dollars in transactions yearly, daily, or whatever, but there's no way to break that down between those actually using it as money for normal purchases and those buying low (or trying) and selling high (or trying) in order to make money off this "money". How would you know? Over this 1st decade and a half, this would-be money has been highly volatile, a bad thing for a money. Mr. Breedlove says it will settle down, and there's a 4-part sequence involved, as with gold too back in history. This was discussed too and never settled in that previous debate.
Let me discuss what I do and don't know about Bitcoin in the context of this debate. I don't expect to understand blockchain software, but I really need to look into more detail on how Bitcoin will reach only 21 million coins (possibly not exactly 21 million, as a round number like that just seems weird). There must be some asymptotic function for which the amount of energy it takes to make more coins near that level follows some steep exponential or power-law curve.
Let's leave aside again that nobody there or here is a mathematician - same as last time - who works on blockchain functions, so we can't REALLY be sure the whole thing can't be hacked someday, or has been already. Mr. Breedlove, like Bitcoin proponent Erik Voorhees in the previous debate, made a lot of money speculating in Bitcoin. For the same reasons, there's a need to feel vindicated as wise****, not just lucky, and to imply something meaningful about it all. Mr. Schiff made some effort to get him to explain why it would be Bitcoin and Bitcoin only, not other cryptocurrencies, that would or should be the money of the digital future. (Within this discussion, Mr. Schiff also made a very good point that, come the crash, with Bitcoin being "the money", wouldn't its widespread use and volatility be a good excuse to bring it into the fold of a CBDC - Central Bank Digital Currency)?)
This is a major point that either Robert Breedlove doesn't have a good answer to, or I just couldn't understand his answers, as he did make the effort. Why not have Cardano, Etherium, and even DogeCoin (meant to be a joke) as the standard? Can we have competing currencies that are all actually used as stores of value and units of account? That sounds like a free market, but it sure may get confusing.
As for me, I don't WANT to speculate. I'd feel much better in the world of gold/silver money and no FED of over a century ago. Even gold/silver backed currency would be OK, or any currency backed by some real money. Robert Breedlove says such money should be Bitcoin in the digital world, while Peter Schiff says it should be gold, no matter what kind of world.
This was a really great discussion, run in an organized fashion, with some heavy thinking required to try to fathom some of the deeper ideas. Again, I hope some of y'all will take the time - this one here is great, I don't care who ya' are... unless you're one of them damn Monetarists or something...
PS: here is the ZeroHedge page that includes the video. Some of the comments are elucidating, but most are the normal ZH chatter - fun but not necessarily illuminating.
* Just tryin' to comply here with the rules of Political Correctness here ...
** from Puerto Rico, for example, but why is Peter Schiff in Puerto Rico, I wondered... Does he know something I ought to know?
*** Why AI? He included that each time, but I don't see why AI has to be in the picture at all.
**** This is not at all to say that Robert Breedlove and Erik Voorhees are not wise men in general. I will reiterate that they both were the best personalities involved in each debate.
Comments:
Adam Smith
Saturday - November 30th 2024 6:34PM MST
PS: Good evening, Achmed!
Winter doth cometh indeed. In fact, we had our first frost last night. I had to bring in the plants and do a little winterizing around the yard. (Undid the hoses and y connectors, brought the aloe plants on the porch, put the heat mats around them and got out the old blanket that I cover them with when it gets frosty. stuff like that.) I also opened up Baby Girl's house and turned her heater to high because they're forecasting a low of near 20° a couple nights from now. I removed a few spiderwebs and a few spiders and crickets that were living down there with her. (Not that they won't come back.) Shook out her blankets a little and made her bed for her though I'm not sure she cares much about that. She has her own way of arranging her bedding but didn't seem to mind me organizing for her. She doesn't have much stress in her life, so I suppose it's alright to create a little work for her occasionally.
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$30/$40 for a tire patch? Wowsers. I paid $15 for a tire patch four or five years ago after I found my tire flat in the driveway. I don't know if I punctured it at the dump or running over some car crash debris in the road on the way back from the dump. (Not that it matters.) I'm just glad the car was parked here and that I didn't get "stranded" somewhere. Sure is easier that way.
I have successfully used those tire plugs on a couple occasions, but the patches that go on from the inside are superior. I think my days of going over 120 are behind me. I'm just not in a hurry anymore and even though my cars are in good condition, they are 35 and 25 years old. Would hate for something to come apart at that speed. Don't really need to get pulled over either.
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I haven't had duck in years. It's probably time to find one especially because I can't find a whole raw chicken that's worth buying anymore. (I used to live in a functioning country where I could buy a whole chicken for ~$3-$3.5 for spatchcocking and grilling. That was cool. I also used to be able to get turkey thighs almost anytime I wanted. That too was nice. Can't find those anymore either. Occasionally they'll have them at Sprouts, but I don't often get down that way. Oh well...)
Glad to hear your furry friend got to enjoy a duck leg. They sure are yummy!
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Healthful v Healthy... Because the words we use have meaning. Or used to anyway. Good on you for teaching him these things. Apparently, (much like what used to be called common sense) this isn't so common anymore. Sometimes I read articles with the most horrendous grammar in places that should have editors that know better. Not mere typos, but straight up butchering of the language. Another sign of the times I suppose.
So yeah. I'm going to go reply to your comment under the 1923 post.
See ya! ☮️
Winter doth cometh indeed. In fact, we had our first frost last night. I had to bring in the plants and do a little winterizing around the yard. (Undid the hoses and y connectors, brought the aloe plants on the porch, put the heat mats around them and got out the old blanket that I cover them with when it gets frosty. stuff like that.) I also opened up Baby Girl's house and turned her heater to high because they're forecasting a low of near 20° a couple nights from now. I removed a few spiderwebs and a few spiders and crickets that were living down there with her. (Not that they won't come back.) Shook out her blankets a little and made her bed for her though I'm not sure she cares much about that. She has her own way of arranging her bedding but didn't seem to mind me organizing for her. She doesn't have much stress in her life, so I suppose it's alright to create a little work for her occasionally.
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$30/$40 for a tire patch? Wowsers. I paid $15 for a tire patch four or five years ago after I found my tire flat in the driveway. I don't know if I punctured it at the dump or running over some car crash debris in the road on the way back from the dump. (Not that it matters.) I'm just glad the car was parked here and that I didn't get "stranded" somewhere. Sure is easier that way.
I have successfully used those tire plugs on a couple occasions, but the patches that go on from the inside are superior. I think my days of going over 120 are behind me. I'm just not in a hurry anymore and even though my cars are in good condition, they are 35 and 25 years old. Would hate for something to come apart at that speed. Don't really need to get pulled over either.
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I haven't had duck in years. It's probably time to find one especially because I can't find a whole raw chicken that's worth buying anymore. (I used to live in a functioning country where I could buy a whole chicken for ~$3-$3.5 for spatchcocking and grilling. That was cool. I also used to be able to get turkey thighs almost anytime I wanted. That too was nice. Can't find those anymore either. Occasionally they'll have them at Sprouts, but I don't often get down that way. Oh well...)
Glad to hear your furry friend got to enjoy a duck leg. They sure are yummy!
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Healthful v Healthy... Because the words we use have meaning. Or used to anyway. Good on you for teaching him these things. Apparently, (much like what used to be called common sense) this isn't so common anymore. Sometimes I read articles with the most horrendous grammar in places that should have editors that know better. Not mere typos, but straight up butchering of the language. Another sign of the times I suppose.
So yeah. I'm going to go reply to your comment under the 1923 post.
See ya! ☮️
Moderator
Saturday - November 30th 2024 11:05AM MST
PS: Good morning, Mr. Smith. All that food sounds very tasty, except, of course, the one thing ... to me.
We had a healthful meal. As I explained to my son today, we (including myself) should be saying "healthful", not "healthy" to be grammatically correct. "See, like this duck - he's pretty healthful, but he's not healthy... I mean, he's dead and all." That made sense to him.
Anyway, it's really winter now. We're only going out to go to a gun show, and then I had to get a tire fixed. Cash is King - $30 instead of $40, but, man, I swear it used to be $15 or so not long ago, to get a patch for a hole in the tread area. I mean, I brought the tire in, off of the car.) I have the patch kit, which I used successfully once (after the 1st one broke at the handle - got a post on that.) My friend, though, says the patches are better - the plugs of rubber put in from the outside aren't good at high speeds. Then again, he means HIGH speeds like 120 mph.
We had more duck today, but we were missing one leg that our furry friend had grabbed yesterday while we weren't watching. He never listens!
We had a healthful meal. As I explained to my son today, we (including myself) should be saying "healthful", not "healthy" to be grammatically correct. "See, like this duck - he's pretty healthful, but he's not healthy... I mean, he's dead and all." That made sense to him.
Anyway, it's really winter now. We're only going out to go to a gun show, and then I had to get a tire fixed. Cash is King - $30 instead of $40, but, man, I swear it used to be $15 or so not long ago, to get a patch for a hole in the tread area. I mean, I brought the tire in, off of the car.) I have the patch kit, which I used successfully once (after the 1st one broke at the handle - got a post on that.) My friend, though, says the patches are better - the plugs of rubber put in from the outside aren't good at high speeds. Then again, he means HIGH speeds like 120 mph.
We had more duck today, but we were missing one leg that our furry friend had grabbed yesterday while we weren't watching. He never listens!
Adam Smith
Saturday - November 30th 2024 10:41AM MST
PS: Good morning, Mr. Moderator and friends!
(And) Happy Thanksgiving!
Mrs. Smith and I also opted out of Türkiye (even though her giblet gravy is amazing!) this year and we were planning on grilling a tri-tip for thanksgiving. But as luck would have it, we found a nice little 6lb bone in ham which Mrs. Smith cooked up on Tuesday with some collards, macaroni and cheese and cornbread. We had so many leftovers that we decided to postpone the tri-tip until today. (So apparently we're having thanksgiving dinner twice this week!) She did, however, bake me a pair of pumpkin pies Wednesday evening because I love pumpkin pie and thanksgiving just wouldn't be right without it.
* Quick question for The Alarmist if you're reading this... Are Hokkaido pumpkins the same thing as kuri squash? Or is it something different? I'm always looking for new things to try in the garden and these sound quite tasty. I've never grown pumpkins, (I did have a bumper crop of butternut squash a few years back), but I do have enough room for them so I'm thinking of ordering some seeds. (Thanks in advance. Happy Thanksgiving!)
(Back to the story...)
Much like you I prefer to have a form of money that I can hold in my grubby little paw that holds its value and has (ideally) very low volatility. Bitcoin may indeed be a nice medium of exchange for internet commerce but I still don't know that it isn't a sort of CBDC experiment by the Federal Reserve cartel. (And what good is it if the interwebs or the power goes out? And how do you keep someone from stealing your digits? And what if it crashes?) (And it's not anonymous as people pretend.)
Gold and silver (and platinum, palladium, copper, zinc, brass & lead) do indeed fluctuate, but the rarely go to zero. (The day they do we have bigger troubles to concern ourselves with.) And I don't care what anyone else says... Legally, lawfully and constitutionally speaking only Gold and Silver are money. (I do suppose platinum could also be money, as it has the same properties that make gold and silver money, but until they amend article 1 section 10 it is not.)
Anyway. That's all I have to say about that.
Happy Thanksgiving! ☮️
(And) Happy Thanksgiving!
Mrs. Smith and I also opted out of Türkiye (even though her giblet gravy is amazing!) this year and we were planning on grilling a tri-tip for thanksgiving. But as luck would have it, we found a nice little 6lb bone in ham which Mrs. Smith cooked up on Tuesday with some collards, macaroni and cheese and cornbread. We had so many leftovers that we decided to postpone the tri-tip until today. (So apparently we're having thanksgiving dinner twice this week!) She did, however, bake me a pair of pumpkin pies Wednesday evening because I love pumpkin pie and thanksgiving just wouldn't be right without it.
* Quick question for The Alarmist if you're reading this... Are Hokkaido pumpkins the same thing as kuri squash? Or is it something different? I'm always looking for new things to try in the garden and these sound quite tasty. I've never grown pumpkins, (I did have a bumper crop of butternut squash a few years back), but I do have enough room for them so I'm thinking of ordering some seeds. (Thanks in advance. Happy Thanksgiving!)
(Back to the story...)
Much like you I prefer to have a form of money that I can hold in my grubby little paw that holds its value and has (ideally) very low volatility. Bitcoin may indeed be a nice medium of exchange for internet commerce but I still don't know that it isn't a sort of CBDC experiment by the Federal Reserve cartel. (And what good is it if the interwebs or the power goes out? And how do you keep someone from stealing your digits? And what if it crashes?) (And it's not anonymous as people pretend.)
Gold and silver (and platinum, palladium, copper, zinc, brass & lead) do indeed fluctuate, but the rarely go to zero. (The day they do we have bigger troubles to concern ourselves with.) And I don't care what anyone else says... Legally, lawfully and constitutionally speaking only Gold and Silver are money. (I do suppose platinum could also be money, as it has the same properties that make gold and silver money, but until they amend article 1 section 10 it is not.)
Anyway. That's all I have to say about that.
Happy Thanksgiving! ☮️
Yes, that's just about what I remember. Maybe it was even 10 bucks, but from about 8 years back. The guy made a big show about "Oh, I won't even charge you. Those tires are old. You need to replace them." Yeah, that had some cracking, as they tend to have within 5 years ONLY nowadays, but I was not about to change them out. This guy had quoted me 10 buck, and his business about "no charge" was to have me think, it'd by unheard of to keep the tires. It was some kind of weird nanny-culture sales tactic. Didn't work - free patch! The tires are on the car today. (Granted, after a couple more years this car had other problems and has been sitting 4 years now - the tires are still full of air though!)
Your cat sounds like she's got it made. Our guy is now sleeping inside, on a parka on the bed. I open the door in the morning, wait for a look on his face that says "F__k this s__t), usually long enough for him to come back in. An hour later, he's forgotter it's cold out ...