PS: Thanks for the run-down on these connected series, Mr. Smith. It IS complicated. Should one watch a prequel before the original. One would think so, but I would guess not. They're made to tell the story in the way the came out.

As for King Country Tx, it's getting downright crowded now, at 265 people. Lat time I was in Guthrie, I think I saw a church steeple... (line from some old country song that I can't remember too well... will check the www).

PS: Good evening, Mr. Moderator!

𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡 𝑎𝑏𝑜𝑢𝑡 𝑡𝑎𝑘𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑎 𝑑𝑟𝑖𝑛𝑘 (𝑊ℎ𝑎𝑡? 𝐴𝑡 9 𝑏𝑢𝑐𝑘𝑠 𝑎 𝑝𝑜𝑝?!)

Harriet Tubman, inventor of the subway, on her way to help design New York City's "Underground Railroad"
https://i.ibb.co/8jYRKDH/image-14.png

Yellowstone first aired on June 20, 2018. They later released the prequels. 1883 was next (December 19, 2021) followed by 1923 (December 18, 2022)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Yellowstone_episodes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_(TV_series)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1923_(TV_series)

I don't know if these shows were planned from the beginning or if they decided to do these because of the popularity of Yellowstone. I can tell you that 1883 only ran for one (10 episode) season. They have completed one (8 episode) season of 1923 and there are rumors of a season 2. They are still making Yellowstone. For how long I do not know. But thanks to this post (3139) I realized that they recently released the first few episodes from the "second half" of season 5.

• Episode 9 "Desire is All You Need" (November 10, 2024)
• Episode 10 "The Apocalypse of Change" (November 17, 2024)
• Episode 11 "Three Fifty-Three" (November 24, 2024)
• Episode 12 "Counting Coup" (December 1, 2024)

Three new episodes for Mrs. Smith and I to watch... So naturally I downloaded them. And last night Mrs. Smith and I watched S05E08 to see where we left off and then proceeded to watch the new ones.

As we started she wondered out loud about how they were going to write Kevin Costner out of the show. And they did. (I'm not going to give any spoilers here because these are brand new episodes. I'm sure there are places on the web where anyone interested could read all about them if they wish.)

I can honestly say that (in my opinion) the three new episodes were pretty good. S05E12 airs tomorrow, but I might wait until Monday to find a copy. I don't know.(?) Maybe there will be a copy available tomorrow night.(?) Either way, I'm looking forward to it.

There are two more episodes scheduled for season 5 (episodes 13 & 14) but they haven't (as far as I know) said anything about when they will air. I don't know if they have been filmed yet.

I would think/guess they would release a season 6 as perhaps a final season if for no other reason than as part of a branding thing for the Four Sixes Ranch. But I don't really know this. Just seems like it would foolish to waste such an opportunity.

https://fortworthreport.org/2022/01/22/legendary-four-sixes-ranch-sold-to-yellowstone-producer-taylor-sheridan/

Check out the shape of King County, TX...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/King+County,+TX

(Fucking Texas.)

** Update: I just read that they are planning a Yellowstone spinoff titled 6666. Will it happen? I don't know. Just what the interwebs is telling me.

As for Teonna Rainwater (the girl in 1923 at the boarding school) I would guess that she is somehow related to Thomas Rainwater (chairman of the Confederated Tribes of Broken Rock and leader of the Broken Rock Indian Reservation) from Yellowstone. I don't know why Taylor Sheridan (and his team of writers?) wrote her part of the story like he (they?) did. But it is what it is. Maybe we will never know. Maybe they will release a couple more seasons of 1923 and we'll find out. Maybe there will be some other prequel/sequel (1963?) later. I don't know what the plan is.

But that's my book report on the Yellowstone series.
I hope you all have a great evening! ☮️

PS: Thank you for the recommendation of "Battleground", Mr. Anon. B&W is a little bit of a downer, but then I have this anecdote about Black & White:

I was in Germany at a hotel about 20 years back, and during down time I watched German TV on the small (probably 12" diagonal) B&W TV they had in the room. Besides having fun memorizing numbers from the continual commercials for "girls, girls" with 8 digit numbers - null nein, null femft, oct zeben, nein dry, over and over for each commercial (I didn't call), I watched a old few American movies.

I was waiting for the scene with the blown up statue of liberty in "Planet of the Apes" to see how Charlton Heston's famous lines sounded in German. Hard to translate in real time. Then, "The Dirty Dozen" was on one time. Since everyone was speaking in German on German TV, and it was B&W with uniforms looking similar, I didn't know what the hell was going on down there in the bunker. (Yeah, I'd seen it before with my Dad, but ...)

Funny thing is, though we did watch TV in 1978, I have no recollection of "The Holocaust" being on. It's not like there were 357 channels - just 3 and one other one that was mostly "snow" - ETV did not have so much power (in a couple of senses).

PS

By the way, one of the best WWII movies ever made was "Battleground", released in 1949 in Black and White. It's a fictional tale, but based on real stories, about a single squad of the 101st Airborne defending Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge. It stars Van Johnson, John Hodiak, James Whitmore (the old Con from "The Shawshank Redemption"), Ricardo Montalban, and Marshall Thompson.

Other than the Black and White Photography, and the absense of profanity and blood-and-gore, you'd think it was a modern movie. Check it out. It's really good.

PS

The movies that were made about WWII in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s showed the Germans (and back then they were "The Germans", not "The Nazis") to be actual people. Some of them were honorable; some of them (usually the actual Nazis) were evil creeps. All of them were "The Enemy", but in a war, there is an enemy. Bear in mind that these were movies that were made to be watched by the actual people who actually fought the war against the Germans. Most WWII vets bore no particular ill-will toward the Huns (I know - I'm related to a few of them).

Something changed in the late 70s. Actually, the something has a name: the TV show "The Holocaust", which aired in 1978. After that, it became impermissible to portray WWII era Germans as anything other than snarling cardboard-cut-out villains.

It reminds me of something that the left-wing photographer Susan Sonntag once wrote, sometime in the early 90s, after the collapse of the Soviet Union. She wrote that the kind of people that she and her friends casually despised, conservative fly-over-land Americans who read Readers Digest, had a better intuitive understanding of the true nature of Soviet Communism than all of her IUWS (Intellectual Upper West Side) friends had.

PS: More on Cooper and McCoy: I just read the FBI report on McCoy and the United (to me) copycat hijacking.

I mentioned packing "his" (Cooper's in Washington State) rig out of the woods. That didn't make things clear. He'd gotten the chutes delivered with the rest of his demands at SEA-TAC, so it wasn't his, per se. Why carry out that evidence on his back.

Then, in the 2nd hijacking, Mr. McCoy did the same, requesting 4 parachutes in his demands. (The point, both times, I believe, was to make people think that he may force others to jump, hence there would be no one chute with a bunch of lines cut.) How could the chutes be "his", much less the same for both hijackings?

Then, it does sound like McCoy was younger from his background. His life, college, the Air Guard, etc., was in Utah. Why would he have gone to do his first job over to unfamiliar and hostile territory in Washington just a few months before? If he got out, I assume he surely had the money with him. Did he spend that 200 large already, or was he just "high" on this sort of action? $200,000 in the early 1970s, never mind the BLS BS, would be same as $2 million today.

Very interesting!

PS: Hello, Adam. The part about taking a drink (What? At 9 bucks a pop?!) was my problem.

Also, I had watched one episode of "Yellowstone", also on a flight. I'm not sure why I didn't watch more of that one. Especially, now that you say "1923" follows from that and "1883". (What order on the 1st 2, Adam?)

Yeah, I see what you're saying, just enjoy the action, scenery, etc. However, once I see that the producers are pushing something on me, it just plain pisses me off. I imagine if this were the 5th episode, I'd get though it. Since I just started, I figured, nah, I don't need to watch this that much.

That's why I try to stay off that entertainment completely or stick to the old stuff, tried and true.

PS: Mr. Hail, I read the article on D.B. Cooper and Mr. McCoy. I have not had much respect for "Popular Mechanics" and "Popular Science" for a long time. This article didn't convince me, as it gave no details about what was unique about the parachute rig.

It'd be amazing to me if Dan Cooper survived, and why pack the rig out along with everything else from the forest in the foothills of the Cascades? He could have stuck it somewhere it'd likely never been found.

Additionally, why wouldn't the FBI have figured out that McCoy was Cooper back when the 1st incident was all fresh, less than half a year back?

This was interesting - it sure was a different time:

"McCoy was arrested after the FBI raided his home. He was convicted and sentenced to 45 years in prison, but eventually broke out of a maximum-security prison and evaded capture for three months until he was shot by police in Virginia in 1974."

No cameras everywhere. Cameras have changed everything, sometimes for the better but mostly for the worse.

PS: Back to the movies, though, Mr. Hail. I have watched a dozen or more WWII movies on TV with my Dad. Speaking of "dozen", yeah "Dirty Dozen", Kelly's Heroes", "The Birdman", and those that were quite unbelievable but fun. There were the more historical-minded ones, such as "Bridge at Remagen", "Guns of Navarrone", "A Bridge too Far", and, the classic "Patton". You're right about these ones - the Germans were just "the other side", that's all, and not particular some especially evil force. I like them all, BTW, even hippie tank commander Donald Sutherland, a little unbelievable, I'd say.

Then, though, "The Boys from Brazil", "Marathon Man", and "The Odessa File" - I think these were more anti-Nazi, not just war movies. They did make the Nazis out to be evil. BTW, I only read the book, "The Odessa File", and it has an interesting turn at the end.

Were these stories the start of the narrative that Evil should have a picture of the Swastika and a Nazi in the dictionary?

PS: About the Germans and Nazis on TV and the movies:

You hit the spot with "Hogan's Heroes". I can't say I've watched every episode for sure, but I may have. My brother was watching re-runs 10 years back*. I guess it has held up better than your Gilligan's Islands, Bewitched's, and such, or he wouldn't have.

I would say making fun of is not as bad as depicting as evil, that's for sure. Yeah, only the SS Major Hochstettler (pardon my guess at the spelling) was seen as, if not evil, a bad person. That's perhaps not a bad way to do it, as the SS probably were the worst of the Nazis. (I think of them as Red Guards in China, Stasi in E. Germany, or even the $PLC types, "policing" the regular-Joe soldiers, but not doing the real work themselves.

Indeed the show made almost everyone look human and not at all evil. The war was just on. That was it, except that, of course, the Allies, including even then the AA Sargeant Kinchloe (sp?) were the clever guys, and the Germans were bumbling fools... but still, decent people.

I agree that this couldn't be made today - far too nice to the Nazi's. Your last paragraphs says it very well.


* You know how the cable channels are now - with so many they have to specialize, and I think one had become at least temporarily the Hogan's Heroes Channel. (I don't know if that was 24/7.) This has probably been a good way to compete with the streaming services, as people do not wait a week for the next show anymore. They binge watch. That's what I did with "The Office".

PS: In reply to your 1st comment, Mr. Hail. It's obvious that the big change in the depiction of Indians on TV and movies happened during the 1960s through 1970s. There were all the John Wayne movies. American kids played "cowboys and Indians" with Indians being, albeit good warriors and all, the bad guys. I would say that the story was biased against the Indians from, I suppose, the beginning of (first) movies and then TV until the 1960s cultural revolution made the White man the bad guy through history.

No, I don't think a Nun would have been depicted "getting off" (molesting seems too strong) with an Indian teenage child before pretty recently (last 2 decades). That's both because the movie/TV makers would have feared repercussions, at least anger, due to both the subject itself and the disparagement of Catholic Nuns.

In answer to your question, neither term was used. This is due to that the stories in Episode 1 and that beginning of 2 were not really connected yet, so there was nobody outside of the Indian school itself talking about it. They were involved, hence no mention of "Indians" vs "Native Americans"... yet. I sure hope they wouldn't get stupid and use the latter - it just wouldn't make any sense.

Adam could probably answer this question.

PS: Good evening, gentlemen,

Mrs. Smith and I enjoyed 1923, and I hope they release season 2 someday. (Season 1 ended with a pretty good cliff hanger. I'd like to see how the 𝐫𝐞𝐝𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐝 at the ranch might be resolved and how/if Spencer and Alex blah bla bla, not going to be a spoiler here, in case anyone else would like to watch it.)

Of course, I didn't/don't expect any sort of historical accuracy out of such a project. The best you might get is some vaguely accurate semi-period specific costumes or something. (And even that is probably unlikely.)

It's been a couple years since I watched it, so I don't really remember the sequence of events (if they ever release season 2 Mrs. Smith and I will re-watch season 1 to refresh our memories) but I did enjoy some of the range war shoot out stuff that happens later on with the agents from the mining company that is trying to steal the Dutton's mineral interests. Spencer and Alex's travels from Africa to Montana are kind of interesting too. (I had never heard of this Julia Schlaepfer chick before, but she's not bad on the eyes.)

There are some scenes with old cars (and old ships) and when the ranch hooks on to the power line so Harrison Ford's character goes to town to get Helen Mirren's character a new electric washing machine or something like that. Some of that is a little interesting because I like looking at old cars, old architecture, old appliances and tommy guns, ya know stuff like that.

But you have to understand, Achmed, this is all fictional. Horses, cowboys, rocky mountain scenery, big game hunting in Africa. Take a toke, pour a drink, turn your brain off and relax. (I was always a bit buzzed when I watched this.)

I don't know that 1923 would make any sense at all if you haven't seen Yellowstone and 1883. I don't think 1923 would make it as a stand alone series. It might make sense, but I don't think it would be nearly as interesting. But truly, some of the good stuff, to me anyway, were things like the genealogy of the Dutton family tree, the (fictional) boundaries of the "Yellowstone Ranch" (the fictional ranch is supposedly ~800,000 acres), interactions with the mining company and the sheep herders and where some of the different scenes were actually filmed. (Much of what I enjoyed about the show you won't find in the show itself. I had to go to the internet to find this info.)

I really must have done a decent job of ignoring the girls boarding school stuff with the cartoonishly evil nuns and all that, because I really don't remember much of it. (Though I do remember some of it.)

Without reading through the script (or watching it) to refresh my brain, I kinda think the first couple episodes were pretty slow and it picks up later as the actors develop their characters. But if you can't get around the White man bad and the Redman "Moral Superiority Doctrine" (to borrow Mr. Hail's terminology) propaganda stuff, then, oh well. I guess this one isn't for you.

So, ugh, yeah. Apparently I'm a fan. And that's about all I have to say about 1923. (The show. Not the year.)

I hope you guys have a great evening. Maybe I'll write out the other comments that I was planning on writing before I saw this new post. There's a lot of info in the previous post. (Many thanks, Mr. Hail.)

Cheers! ☮️

PS

-- D. B. Cooper back in the news --

The magazine "Popular Mechanics" says it has proof of the identity of D. B. Cooper, a longtime PS interest. Was this man the true D. B. Cooper. Was this man, to use an apropos phrase, "the real McCoy"?

Here:

________________

A Secret Parachute in the FBI’s Possession May Have Finally Solved D.B. Cooper’s Identity

We might know the notorious skyjacker at last—thanks to his own children.

By Tim Newcomb
Popular Mechanics
Nov 25, 2024

The children of convicted skyjacker Richard McCoy II believed their dear old dad may have been D.B. Cooper, the notorious (and notoriously unidentified) central figure in 1971’s unsolved skyjacking. It’s the only one in United States history, in fact, without an answer—until, perhaps, now.

Just months after the Cooper incident, McCoy was convicted of an incredibly similar skyjacking that also included a parachute jump. His children, Chanté and Richard III (Rick), have long thought the clues added up.

They may now have evidence to back up their suspicions.

Chanté and Rick had kept quiet out of consideration for their mother, Karen, who they believed was potentially complicit in both crimes. But as both parents are now deceased, the opportunity arose for the siblings to come forward with their suspicions. And, crucially, they seem to have hard evidence: a modified parachute that they (and amateur D.B. Cooper sleuth Dan Gryder) believe was used in the daring escape.

(.....)

_______________

https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/

PS

Also, re "50 years ago":

Another example of how tv depictions change a lot is how, in the 1960s-70s, "Nazis" or World War II Germans depicted on U.S. tv shows and U.S. or British movies, were actually treated quite well.

The Germans of that era, including indeed "Nazi" officers, are treated well in tv and such compared to the vilification of later eras. The villification still holds in the 2020s, though it's probably lesser in intensity than some time back, say the 1990s or 2000s.

The Germans were treated neutrally or comically (which is a kind of positive treatment). It was rare to see cartoonish villification, which I think the people producing these things in the 1960s and 1970s would've seen as tacky, like some throwback to the most intense forms of mid-1950s anti-communism would've seemed by the 1970s.

Think of "Hogan's Heroes." Assuming those reading this have seen it and remember at least the gist of how the show worked: Can you remember ever seeing the main German characters, or the Germans writ large in the series, shown as evil villains? Not one here or there, but the bulk. In fact, the only German villains were entirely off-screen and the very occasional outside visitor, and most episodes passed without much references. Remember, the show was a comedy! About a WWII internment camp!

The Germans of Hogan's Heroes were comic foils, bumblers, people upon whom jokes were played or such, and none more than the main character Colonel Klink.

Later eras of Hollywood would never produce a Colonel Klink. The mythology of the war evolved in a quite striking way that makes Hogan's Heroes strange to view decades later. You also had drama-type output that also treated the Germans neutrally or fairly, without cartoonish vilification, such as the Cross of Iron movie which came out in 1977.

The TV-and-movie Germans before the late 1970s didn't necessarily soak up many of the rays of the U.S./Western cult of that war (in its various evolving forms), but they also weren't, yet, our civic-religion's Devil. I won't state why I think this change happened. But anyone who has read my usual commentary enough can very likely guess it.

Needless to say, the "Nazis"/Germans as satanic and the curse of mankind was easy enough to inflate to apply to all Western-Christian people, and that is the main animating core-impulse of Wokeness as we now would recognize it. Cruelly anti-White, anti-male, anti-family, anti-heterosexual, anti-heroic, and generally anti-Western Wokeness (including these elements in "1923") was impossible in a world in which Colonel Klink and his fat "I know NOTHING!" assistant were possible.

PS

"my Dad 50 years ago...saw the agenda on TV. Now, I see the agenda."

The agenda changes from era to era, and sometimes narrowing in closely on one particular thing can show big evolutions. The wildly differing way Amerindians are depicted is a good example.

Hearing only that a show is produced in the 2020s and features American Indians (do they ahistorically call them "Native Americans" in the show?), it's enough to be able to guess how things will look.

No such show would've been possible before, when?, the 2000s? Even the 2010s? Although by the mid-late 1990s it was probably possible to foresee that such things would come.