Ron Unz comments with some comment-sense

Posted On: Monday - August 30th 2021 8:31PM MST
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First, just a note here to say that Peak Stupidity will be including quite a bit more of the Kung Flu stupidity now that Season 3 is in full swing. I have so much other stuff backed up, but maybe, on the COVID-one-niner, a Peak Stupidity post a day keeps Doctor Fauci away... far, far away, I hope! I believe our readers want to read this stuff because it's happening now. We like to write about it too, because, though many flavors of stupidity abound, the Kung Flu PanicFest is a novel form of stupidity. We are both the Woodward & the Bernstein of the Kung Flu PanicFest story. Where are our Pulitzers?

I noticed just today that Ron Unz has a 3rd in a series of posts of his under his "Announcements" section specifically set up for commenter to debate the Kung Flu vaccination controversy. I had not gotten into the 1st two, mostly due to my disagreement, or so I thought, with Mr. Unz's stance on the Kung Flu in general*. I have neither the heart nor time to go through the previous comment threads as Are the Opponents of the Covid Injections “Anti-Vaxx Crackpots”? (Mr. Unz is interviewed by Mike Whitney, who has been on the anti-panic side of this thing.) and The Covid Debate: To Vaxx or Not to Vaxx have 1,681 and 1,589 comments in them, respectively! (The commenters are nothing if not consistent in output.). Good on The Unz Review for this, but a 3rd drawback of getting into them is who in hell would read a comment that old and that is one in 1,500?!

The 3rd post is simply called A Continuation of the Covid Vaxxing Debate. I have read through just over 300 of the comments in about 2 hours. (I was traveling.)

I know this is a digression, but just to back up my claim of 2 hours, let me put it this way. I don't think I read nearly as fast as Ron Unz claims to (and very likely does!) I can move along like most of the best of them, though, as I know when to skip the last part of an occasional uninteresting one, and I usually recognize the ones I've already read via clicking around on replies to others. I'll say this specifically for this thread. Corvinus wasn't on there, or it'd have been even faster - I skip not only his comments but almost all replies to his. There was a guy named "Rasche" who wrote some amazingly long-winded comments, and was as full of himself as I could even imagine someone being**. Mr. Unz seems to really like the guy.

Commenter Adam Smith wrote in a quick good one. (Let me know if/when you've read that whole thing, Adam. Or, are you not as obsessive as me about it?) The thread is up to well over 400 posts now.

Again, this one is specifically about the jab. I read a good debate there. I don't mean any of the not just pro-vax but mandatory-vaxxers*** had any points that changed my mind. The guy "That Would be Telling" had his usual bit, but IMO got reamed pretty badly to the point that he was just putting Troll tags on comments as his argument. Maybe "debate" isn't the best term, but the anti-mandatory-vax commenters really did well. Any point I would have made was already made well, including my question about Mr. Unz himself.

Last winter, in Where have you gone, Ronald Unzio, ... we wondered how an extremely intelligent guy like that could write about all kinds of big lies in history (not that I agree with every single one of his revisions), yet fail to see the big lie going on all around us "right here, right now"? Here's an excerpt from that long post:
If ever there were a big story that could rival that of WWI and WWII being instigated by certain people or the people behind the implementation of Communism in Russia, who shot JFK (or JR, for that matter) or. any one of Ron’s areas of historical research that many appreciate, woudn’t this Kung Flu PanicFest be it? Yet, Mr. Unz is so into his “who started it?” conspiracy theory instead. I’m just wondering if that’s just an anti-Americans and pro-Chinese attitude coming though. Be that as it may, this is the biggest story of the century, with huge amounts of political implications. Wake up, Ron Unz! This is happening NOW, Ron, Right Here, Right Now (Unfortunately, it's not as bright a happening as the fall of the Commies in Europe, the subject of that Jesus Jones' song.)
Now, of all things, among a few other comments of his on this Vax thread Part 3, Mr. Unz has a really common-sensical comment that could have written by one of us Peakers... only, yeah, we'd have written it about a year and a half earlier, but who's counting? Here you go - the whole thing:
With vaccine protection falling with time, perhaps recently vaccinated should seek infection as “booster” against future variants? I have seen this speculation floating around and for lower risk groups this might make sense.
As everyone here knows, I’m absolutely no Covid expert so take this with a huge grain of salt, but I’ve been wondering the same thing for the last few weeks. Consider:

(1) From what I’ve read, getting infected gives you very long-term, perhaps almost permanent near-immunity. There seem to be extremely few second infections that are at all serious.

(2) Covid vaccines don’t seem to provide long-term immunity, though they greatly reduce the seriousness of the infection, perhaps by 95% or more. For vaccinated people, Covid really is “just the flu.”

(3) Since vaxxed people can still get infected and infect others, and the Delta strain is so extremely contagious, I’d think that sooner or later, almost everyone will get infected. Based upon excess deaths, probably something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all American adults have already been infected.

(4) Wouldn’t it make sense for vaxxed people to deliberately get infected while their vaccine-protection is still relatively strong? That way we essentially get herd immunity, but with minimal severe illnesses, loss of life, or overwhelmed ICUs. The exceptions might be those people who are so vulnerable due to age or other factors that even the vaccine might not be enough to protect them.

(5) The big unknown in this analysis is whether vaxxed people who get infected develop “infection immunity” or not, or at least what the percentages would be.

(6) Similarly, since children seem almost invulnerable to Covid, wouldn’t it make sense for them to get infected and develop permanent immunity against later reinfection? Obviously, a year or two doesn’t make any difference, so there’s no rush and probably Covid should be better understood before this decision is made. But offhand, I think it probably makes more sense to deliberately infect children than to vaxx them.
I would not have expected this common sense comment out of the man, but I feel bad writing that now. Bravo, Ron Unz!

PS: I took slight issue with Mr. Unz's point (6). I'm fine with the health aspect of it, but asking even the least hysterical of parents to purposefully infect their child is a non-starter. OTOH, if you tell them it's a vaccine, ... and it IS nearly the same as using an old-fashioned vaccine!

* He seems much too involved in his pet theory about the origins of the Kung Flu (not much of a spoiler, but "it's the Americans!"), a year ago was predicting millions of deaths FROM this virus, and lastly, used to denigrate as a "hoaxer" anyone who didn't sound hysterical enough about it. Maybe the last two opinions may have changed ...?

** It's almost to where it reads like satire, as far as his "full-of-himselfness".

*** They are the real problem. If you want to promote the vaccine and get more people to take it, fine. Our problem is those who want to force it. They are trying hard, a subject for numerous posts to come.

Tuesday - September 7th 2021 8:22PM MST

A surprisingly good comment from Ron Unz. Thank you for highlighting it!

Ron Unz wrote: "getting infected gives you very long-term, perhaps almost permanent near-immunity. There seem to be extremely few second infections that are at all serious."

We have known that from the start here, and for decades it has been known by science (or should I specify "lower-case science"? Not our new "The Science").

Once any given virus contacts your system, the same virus will not infect you again. Whenever they came up with a supposed case of a "re-infection," odds are almost always that it was a false-positive.

This is all basic stuff but they were literally banning world-leading epidemiologists from pointing it out back during Peak Panic.

Ron Unz wrote: "Based upon excess deaths, probably something like 1/3 to 1/2 of all American adults have already been infected."

From what I have seen, this estimate is reasonable but may bear more explanation.

I don't know what he thinks he means by "based on excess deaths," for when you impose radical changes on a society, you'll expect to get some effects visible in excess deaths, some not able to be foreseen at all, for example the big spike in car accident deaths starting in late March 2020 and lasting through the end of the year at least.

There are so many forms of unnecessary/unexpected deaths in a world of behavior-distortions from Flu-Virus Lockdonwism that the simple datum of supposed "excess deaths" must be treated with great caution. Unz being of a mathematical-type of mind can appreciate this.

Perhaps he miswrote and meant the evidence for a 30%-50% infection rate came from random testing or can be inferred from such.

There was have been scandalously few of these randomized tests for prior infection after a few early ones (one by the Ioannidis and Battichariya team, the latter now a media celebrity), making it almost seem like powerful forces in the USA don't want them. There have been many more in other rich countries and few in the US.

Last week (early Sept 2021), the Journal of the American Medical Association published one study covering July 2020 to May 2021:

The paper was on vaccines but had data on naturally acquired immunity.

The findings include this: In early 2021, in reasonably random samples, just over 10% of US "Asians" and 25% of US "Hispanics" (with Blacks and Whites in between) had confirmed infection-induced antibodies.

Given that some who had contact with the virus in 2019-20 had already lost measurable antibodies (but NOT immunity, which is generally lifelong) by the time of inquiry, the number of actual infected would be higher still, perhaps the base number x 1.5., so 15%+ of Asians, 35%+ of Hispanics, and Blacks and Whites falling in the middle. (We can see even in this dataset that antibodies fade with time, because between Jan. 2021 and May 2021, the samples showing naturally-acquired antibodies did NOT go up, and in some cases seemed to slightly dip; given months more of ongoing normal transmission, we would expect it to continue to go up.)

A certain, unknown number of others outside this Corona-antibody-having group have preexisting immunity via contact with similar viruses. This is thought to skew by your geographical experience (meaning where you personally have lived in your life--important here being in which subcontinental virus transmission zone, i.e., with which set of background viruses) and other SES factors.

This is why the herd-immunity threshold is (has long been known to be) much lower than 100% or even the sometimes-heard 80%, and may be as low as 25% in some communities in some cases.

With these numbers, we see that the whole thing reached its (delayed) end-point in many places during flu season 2020-21, one region after another probably tipping into herd-immunity. There was no further reason to even track this virus after that. The vaccines thing throws a monkey-wrench into this natural process and will be studied for years.
The Alarmist
Wednesday - September 1st 2021 11:04AM MST

Thank you, Mr. Smith.

I must say that as COVID Clown World and the ever more bizarre pronouncements of Dr. Fraudchi and the Committee of Disease Criminals continue to spew out on the MSM, I realize that Alex Jones at his wildest seems more believable ... especially when we get later page 42 in the NY Times revelations that the government really did try to grow babies in cows and researched turning frogs gay.

Wishing you a good rest of your day, from GITMO CE where the lights of liberty are being snuffed out every day.
Adam Smith
Wednesday - September 1st 2021 7:49AM MST
PS: Good morning everyone...

Thanks for the info Mr. Alarmist. I've never heard of this J. Bart Classen before but it looks like Dr. Classen has a website at Here are some of his other publications...

The so called “Fact Checkers” at the Poynter Institute give J. Bart Classen a rating of “Pants on Fire”, so you know this guy is legit. There is a warning on his home page that reads...

“We are concerned that the current outbreak of COVID-19 is actually a bioweapon attack and may be linked to the US anthrax attack of 2001, which originated from the US army base Fort Detrick.”

Dr. Classen says...

“Scientific analysis of the data from pivotal clinical trials for US COVID-19 vaccines indicates the vaccines fail to show any health benefit and in fact, all the vaccines cause a decline in health in the immunized groups.”

“Mass immunization with COVID-19 vaccines is certainly leading to a catastrophic public health event.”

Time will tell.
Thanks again.
I hope you have a great evening Mr. Alarmist.

The Alarmist
Wednesday - September 1st 2021 3:32AM MST

On that note, check this out while it is still out there ...

Title: “US COVID-19 Vaccines Proven to Cause More Harm than Good Based on Pivotal Clinical Trial Data Analyzed Using the Proper Scientific Endpoint, “All Cause Severe Morbidity”
J. Bart Classen, MD*”
Dieter Kief
Wednesday - September 1st 2021 2:49AM MST

Mr. Moderator you ask this question:

"Dieter, I had thought that the Swiss were very prudent with immigration, making it very hard for any of those foreigners to get citizenship. Couldn't they just be kept out... temporarily ... maybe extended toward permanency?"

I ask you this question: And who then would do the work these Balkan und Turky-folks - hundreds of thousands of them! - are doing in Switzerland?

Because almost all of them work - day in day out in Switzerland - meaning: They work good & hard!

That's the trick with immigration into Switzerland: They let it happen, if they can make proper use of it. - In this respect, they differ from the Japanese. I read recently, that they are not only quite restrictive in regard to immigration, but that they even put a 100% ban on followers of the Islam faith. - Now: This kind of purity is by no means the Swiss way (- öh - kernel Switzerland is about half catholic - and purity is a rather protestant thing).
Adam Smith
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 9:22PM MST
PS: Good evening Mr. Moderator...

I've never seen anything like it either. It's strange.

Tuesday - August 31st 2021 8:13PM MST
PS: Alarmist, that's a nice quick calculation to show the relative risks to someone, showing that they are in the same ballpark. Thanks. Actually, you are likely right that the VAERS is off to the low side - it takes effort to log events, while there is great incentive to log deaths as from COVID, as we've all discussed back to last year.

Dieter, I had thought that the Swiss were very prudent with immigration, making it very hard for any of those foreigners to get citizenship. Couldn't they just be kept out... temporarily ... maybe extended toward permanency?

Adam, I think Mr. Unz is a TERRIBLE judge of character, but then I say that as someone he dubs a "random rightwing ranter". OK, but that Raches guy can write English like the dickens, but the writing is so full of smugness - I've never seen anything like it.
Adam Smith
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 4:04PM MST
PS: Good evening...

“There was a guy named "Rasche" who wrote some amazingly long-winded comments, and was as full of himself as I could even imagine someone being. Mr. Unz seems to really like the guy.”

That Mr. Unz likes this Raches character might be an understatement. From Unz's comment To Mr. Mohawk...

“And as it happens, this debate drew in an exceptionally erudite new commenter calling himself “Raches,” seemingly one of the most formidable intellects ever found on this website.”

Seems like Mr. Unz is down right smitten.

The Alarmist
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 2:40PM MST
PS @ DieterKief

Maybe there is a genetic component at work ... Southern Europeans were clobbered by the Spanish flu in 1918, while we ice people in the north, who are acclimated to the conditions that are ideal for this sort of bug, were far less affected by the same due to millenia of living with similar viridae.

I love how the article works in that “good earners” are likely to be less vaccine-hesitant, as if the vaxxes are a solution and not a part of the problem.

Switzerland claims it has 57% of its population with at least one dose of vaxx (51% fully vaxxed, 6% partially).

The uptick in cases and hospitalizations could be similar to the upticks in other high-vaxx quotient countries, e.g. Israel, Gibraltar, etc.

Maybe the vaxxed Swiss with asymptomatic infections are superspreading the illnessto their more vulnerable migrant labourers.

Dieter Kief
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 1:22PM MST

Lots of real-world experiments are taking place these days. One of them: Swiss immigrants making visits at home - in Bosnia, Serbia, Albania, etc. where people do not keep a distance and do not vaccinate, etc. pp.
Result: Thirtyfold number of CO-19 patients in Swiss intensive care beds by now compared to the beginning of the Swiss holiday season. - This does look like being no coincidence, doesn't it? )

Btw. - the exact same thing is happening in Austria too right now.
The Alarmist
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 11:40AM MST

I wouldn’t go out of my way to get infected for the natural immunity, but I wouldn’t mind going back to “normal” and taking my chances with possible infection ... 8% probability of catching it coupled with a 0.3% CFR works out to 0.024% risk of death versus a 100% chance of a 0.0065% probability of vaxx-related death (if VAERS is to be trusted) in the short-term with an unknown-unknown being the long-term consequences.

The short-term “benefit” might appear to be good, but it is only 4x the risk of the vaxx in absence of the unknown-unknown. What’s more, if VAERS death stats are understated, e.g. one insider tossed out 50k deaths versus the 13k recorded, then that 4x vaxx advantage vaporizes, so your vaxx risk is on par with COVID risk, and that ignores the additional risk from ADE with the vaxxes.

As for TWBT, he is a nasty little dogmatic troll who liberally hits the troll button whenever he can’t prevail in debate.

As for Germany, rationality went out the window ages ago. It’s a sad day when Mr. Scholz is the most serious candidate for Chancellor.
Dieter Kief
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 5:55AM MST
PS I'd still say, you overestimate Ron Unz'(covid) w
writing Mod.

The Swiss let the kids do whatever they want. The only difference they make to pre Covid-times: They ask the pupils to wash their hands properly before entering class or kindergarten. No masks needed.

Across the border in southern Germany, we have ONE teacher being infected with Covid (probably (!) in class by kids) - and this ONE teacher is headline news throughout Germany.
The Teachers Union is strictly against going back to normal and ask for online-classes to continue.
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 5:08AM MST
PS: Someone in that thread brought that up, Jimbobia. His report is that it didn't work out well for him at all, as it staved off the Chicken Pox during childhood but he got it later (not sure when), and it was very bad.

I don't know - never heard of that as a kid. Just got the Chicken Pox like most of the rest of 'em.
Tuesday - August 31st 2021 4:26AM MST
PS Bringing back the old chicken pox party theory.
Adam Smith
Monday - August 30th 2021 9:54PM MST
PS: Good evening Mr. Moderator...

So here we are, day 533 of 15 days to flatten the curve and Ron Unz wants to deliberately infect children with the most sinister of viruses!? Oh how the times are a changin'.

I laughed a little when I read Mr. Unz's comment. (I've probably read about half the comments by clicking around on the replies and such.) Though I agree with what he's saying, Mr. Unz probably should have chosen his words a little more carefully. (or not?) I'm glad to see him coming to his senses.

I liked your comments too, Achmed. One of them had some very sensible advice about dealing with the kids...

“How about the solution being we let kids go back to acting like kids did pre-March ’20?”

Sometimes the best course of action is also the easiest.

WHAT SAY YOU? : (PLEASE NOTE: You must type capital PS as the 1st TWO characters in your comment body - for spam avoidance - or the comment will be lost!)