Posted On: Wednesday - August 19th 2020 6:01PM MST
In Topics: Immigration Stupidity Student and other Snowflakes Bible/Religion So-called Pope Francis
(Continued from previous post with its excellent, thoughtful comments so far.)
The argument being discussed here is whether the modern version of Christianity is at least partly responsible for the downfall of western society. Some of the comments/posts that I've see address this topic go all the way back to the very beginning of Christianity. They say we need to go back to paganism, Druidism(?), etc. Most would probably disagree with this opinion. When you look at history right up through the middle of the 20th century, 19 centuries of evidence (OK, 16 or so starting from the Roman adoption of Christianity) tells us the Western World did very well under Christianity, beating out, well everyone else. That's not to say it is the secret to our success, but it sure didn't hurt.
What about the last 75 years though? I am no Professor of Divinity, though it's apparently very easy to become one via the internet now. I can't discuss which Vatican forum was the downfall. I don't know which Pope to blame, if it comes down to Catholicism alone (not really), though I do know a recent Commie so-called Pope who is a very big example of the problem right now.
Again, most religions lead us to strive for the next life or next world, which will be better by a long shot than this one, or we wouldn't sign up. Christianity, though, is emphatic that no matter how much good one does in this one, that is no guarantee of any spot in the next one. Secondly, the emphasis on forgiveness towards ones enemies is something that is particular from Jesus. Both of these are concepts that don't come easily to us, but that's just it - it's about faith.
That does not mean that active Christians don't do more than their share of good in this world. Ask anyone, and he'd rather some Jehovah's Witness ladies knock on the door offering help than any bearded Moslem guy in a robe. They are trustworthy because of their attitude, and were the world really filled with true Christians (kind of the point for the Evangelical types)*, I don't think I'd be writing this post.
For whatever reasons, the forgiveness and tolerance** aspect of modern Christianity has been elevated to be the be-all-to-end-all over creating and maintaining a Western Christian society to begin with. This is the large-scale problem. Peak Stupidity has discussed in numerous posts (the Students and other Snowflakes has kinda morphed into a catch-all for some of these) the ridiculous tolerance for stupidity that modern Christian churches have signaling their virtues with***. On the immigration front, it involves invited millions of COMPLETE foreigners to live in our communities, changing them for the worse. See, the good being done for those individuals brought here may not do a bit of good for those of US already here, in this world, but they are thinking of the next. OTOH, good works alone, which is in this case surely in the eye of the
If the Lutherans that push this stuff, the Southern Baptist Convention support for Black Lives Matter idiocy , and pretty much all of the rest of the traditional denominations of American Christianity are all woke up, well, they are not concerned with this world. That is, at least this world in traditional America. They have their faith, they do what they FEEL is their best good works, but if their grandchildren end up growing up as strangers in a strange land, and if this world ends up burning in civil war, well, shoot, that's not really their problem. They are looking to the next world.
This post was just about to lead to the small-scale aspect of modern Christian extreme forgiveness and tolerance, but I think that'll have to be Part 3. Instead, today, how 'bout some Tucker Carlson goodness, regarding this world.
* The Chinese people have benefited a lot from the Christian religion, those in China practicing often under the table (not literally!) along with those around the world, such as in America. Western Christians tried to convert the place starting a coupla hundred years back, but they were needles in a haystack of people. (Read "A Great War never even heard of - the Taiping Rebellion " about a big war involving some weird fallout from this effort.)
** I don't think "tolerance" is actually mentioned anywhere in the New Testament (or Old Testament, most definitely!) but it seems to be part of the dogma now.
*** Well, OK, and to collect a whole lot of money for doing so, off of the US taxpayer, no less. The best source on all of this is the wonderful Refugee Resettlement Watch site, run by one nice and hardworking lady, Mrs. Ann Corcoran. She's got her own URL now, so Wordpress or Blogspot (whomever it was) can't fuck with her.
**** That is NOT a Biblical passage in Proverbs. Per wiki (I know, right?) the closest thing can be found in Ecclesiastes (see more) 21:10, "The way of sinners is made plain with stones, but at the end thereof is the pit of hell." It is not clear to me that this has the same meaning, but anyway, this is Old Testament stuff, incorporated by Christianity, but not necessarily taken as the Gospel (haha!) Here's more the section of Chapter 21 in question:
7 An eloquent man is known far and near; but a man of understanding knoweth when he slippeth.
8 He that buildeth his house with other men's money is like one that gathereth himself stones for the tomb of his burial.
9 The congregation of the wicked is like tow wrapped together: and the end of them is a flame of fire to destroy them.
10 The way of sinners is made plain with stones, but at the end thereof is the pit of hell.
11 He that keepeth the law of the Lord getteth the understanding thereof: and the perfection of the fear of the Lord is wisdom.
12 He that is not wise will not be taught: but there is a wisdom which multiplieth bitterness.
13 The knowledge of a wise man shall abound like a flood: and his counsel is like a pure fountain of life.
Comments:
MBlanc46
Friday - August 21st 2020 7:56AM MST
PS I certainly don’t know the details of church discipline in American Protestantism, but one thing about Christianity is that it has always between about doctrine. What one believes about Jesus and his teachings is what makes one a Baptist or a Presbyterian or a Lutheran or a Methodist. I imagine that if a manager strays too far from the company line, s/he is disciplined. That’s the top down bit. There’s also the bottom up bit. You’ve got to keep putting the bums in pews and bills in the collection plate, and if you’re saying things that will put your parishioners—many of whom are women—outside the range of accepted views, your parishioners might begin to look elsewhere for spiritual nourishment to avoid social death. There’s probably also a sideways bit. If you want to accepted by your fellow pastors, maybe invited to say the benediction at some public event, you can’t stray too far from orthodoxy. There’s a home remodeling show that Mme B watches from Waco, Texas. Very popular. A minor industry. The hosts are a very attractive, very charming couple. Someone let it be known that they attend a church where it is taught that homosexuality is a sin. It caused a national kerfuffle. They are popular enough that they weathered the storm, but they could easily have been unpersonned. If you don’t toe the line, they will try to destroy you.
Moderator
Thursday - August 20th 2020 7:08PM MST
PS: Mr. Blanc, I can understand that in the Big-Biz employment, which is unfortunately becoming the employment of the majority, you really have to go with the multi-culti (well, all of this shit). That is, unless, per my post a few weeks back, you have F-U money or a F-U job, not the case for most of us, or you are able to really lead and get a group that can't be all fired, or can't be all arrested, as the case may be.
Now, in the case of the clergy, well, aren't many of these guys self-employed, when it comes down to it? Sure, your church may be part of the Southern Baptist Convention, but you have a lot more leeway than if you are a manager of a Starbucks branch. The congregants are your customers, as if you say what really needs to be said, you may get a bigger following that via the go-along-to-get-along sermons. Just sayin, it's something I thought of in answer to the latter part of your comment.
Then again, you got the guys that I'll mention in my next or next-to-next post - one despicable pastor, let me tell you, Mr. Blanc!
Now, in the case of the clergy, well, aren't many of these guys self-employed, when it comes down to it? Sure, your church may be part of the Southern Baptist Convention, but you have a lot more leeway than if you are a manager of a Starbucks branch. The congregants are your customers, as if you say what really needs to be said, you may get a bigger following that via the go-along-to-get-along sermons. Just sayin, it's something I thought of in answer to the latter part of your comment.
Then again, you got the guys that I'll mention in my next or next-to-next post - one despicable pastor, let me tell you, Mr. Blanc!
MBlanc46
Thursday - August 20th 2020 9:00AM MST
PS Again, I’ll push the after-the-fact-rationalization view. I don’t deny that there is a dialectical interaction between religion and the other elements of a culture. But, Herr Marx and many others had it right. Those elements that put bread and meat (or textured vegetable protein, if you’re a vegetarian) on the table are going to have the dominant role in shaping the culture. Ideational elements such as religion will tend to reinforce that shaping, but, except in truly revolutionary situations, they are not going to counter it. In contemporary American society, you’re going to have a tough time of it if you don’t jump on the multiculturalism, mass immigration, wash-black-people’s-feet train. The clerisy are no different. You want to get ahead, you get on the train. And, as the Mod points out, there’s money to be made by backing the plan.