Old Conservatarian America- a place where even squares could have a ball.

Posted On: Tuesday - February 4th 2020 7:02PM MST
In Topics: 
  Music  Liberty/Libertarianism  alt-right

In an on-line discussion about Libertarianism vs. Conservatism a coupla days back, I noted that lots of people don't seem to get that basic concept of government mandates vs. private agreements.

See, now here's a guy who would get it:

I believe it's mostly the younger alt-right crowd that have this opinion that Conservatism and Libertarianism are two ideologies that are somehow far apart. Have they been reading only the Reason magazine goofballs and their immigration stupidity? There's a lot more about Libertarianism than what you're gonna' get out of that publication (check out the guy above, went by the name Murray Rothbard, or Libertarian’s Libertarian - Hans-Herman Hoppe.

There are Libertarians that do lean hard left, but Peak Stupidity explained in What's the deal with Peak Stupidity - Libertarian or Conservative? it's the existential immigration issue that's the big schism. When you're on the right side of that issue, conservatism is not inherently at odds with Libertarianism at all.

You can get into City laws vs. Home Owners Associations, private vs. public roads and all that. The hard-core Libertarians will never realize all those dreams, especially with the current-era American population. However, the arguments from the alt-right that Libertarianism is against their ideas of forming more conservative communities and that the L's are for "atomized" people who must do their own thing is wrongheaded. In fact, L's believe in associations to replace lots of the monopolization of facets of life by government. Charities are the best example, but there are plenty.

One particular, otherwise seemingly-smart, commenter tried to tell me that close-knit communities are too stifling as people know each other's business, and norms of behavior are enforced via shunning. "You can't do whatever you want" because of that, was the idea. Sure, that's the case, and that's what Conservatives love about more community vs. the atomized lifestyle many live today. The culture, at least as handed to us as the Bread & Circuses is pretty sickening. It seems like a Libertarian now would have a hard time NOT being in a community, a community of like-minded Libertarians being the best.

My point is, though, the encouragement to stick to norms of behavior seen in close-knit communities is NOT MANDATORY. You may not have friends around if you "violate" the community standards, but you wont' get thrown in jail. Is that not a key point?

I know a place that was both Libertarian and Conservative, come to think of it, as a great example. That place was the U. S. of A. circa < 1965. That's when the Civil Rites laws and major increases in government welfare (Great Society) began, causing us to eventually lose most of our liberty. You may think, "wait a minute, the hippies started doing their thing right at that time and afterwards, and they did WHATEVER they wanted." Yes, they most certainly did, but even before that time you weren't going to jail just because you wore your hair long.* You might get nasty looks, hear nasty remarks, and not have a free-love-believing girlfriend like some years later.

Laws against dope and such would have been still local vs. Federal. Don't like 'em? Yeah, you'd have to get a big enough crowd to overturn them, not likely in lots of 50s American locales. However, the very important Freedom of Association, specified in Amendment I of the Law of the Land had not been eviscerated by the Civil Rites legislation yet. You could go form your Libertarian community without MANDATORY curtailment by the Feds.

Back in the 1960s there still were very conservative small towns that a large percentage of Americans lived in. No, they didn't like those hippies. Merle Haggard, back in the day, sang about how the "square" folks in Muskogee, Oklahoma, just an example, differed from said hippies, such as those enjoying the hell out of San Francisco during those years. The Okies did not like much about those hippy types, sure enough. Listen to the song, though, and tell me, did Merle Haggard sing that the hippies should be BANNED from , smoking marijuana, wearing Roman sandals, letting their hair get long and shaggy, and getting their kicks on LSD? There was no law in Muskogee MANDATING pitching woo nor any BANNING making a party out of lovin'.

Yeah, I know, Muskogee would not have been the place to set up housekeeping as a sandal-wearing, dope-smoking, long-haired hippy in 1969. The Conservatives weren't calling for Federal legislation on those matters either. That's how Conservatives and Libertarians can get along.

Note Mr. Haggard messing up on the last chorus there. Sure, Gerry Garcia of The Dead did this after playing songs for 2 or 3 decades, hell especially after playing songs for 2 or 3 decades, but he had an excuse: drugs. Perhaps, due to this show not being held in Muskogee, Oklahoma, USA, Merle was not being a hypocrite by toking a little bit himself. After all, the song goes "we don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee." It doesn't really specify whether residents of Muskogee partake in it elsewhere. I coulda' been a contender lawyer.

Peak Stupidity has featured Merle Haggard before with Are the Good Times Really Over for Good?

* OK, it's not strictly true from peoples' experiences, but that wasn't the legal framework.

[Updated 02/08/20: ]
I just had to add a bit of humor below the Merle Haggard video. It was something I'd thought of before, left out, and would not have had another opportunity for.

Tuesday - December 1st 2020 3:16PM MST
PS: Thanks Puto. A guy like that - you'd think he'd partaken a time or two.
Monday - November 30th 2020 3:42PM MST
PS that line in Okie From Muskogee was an in-joke because Merle was well known to love his weed.
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