Posted On: Friday - March 1st 2024 11:10AM MST
In Topics: General Stupidity Trump Science President DeSantis
In the comments under this post of ours, Dieter Kief suggested the video embedded below. Because I spent the 3/4 hour to watch it, and because Mr. Kief is interested in this stuff, I am getting around to commenting on it now. The subject of Psychology is not anywhere in Peak Stupidity's wheelhouse, but it is in Mr. Kief's, and the interview is interesting.
Commenter Adam Smith very kindly provided us links to the 2 books, touted by Mr. Kief, written by Ian McGilchrist, the Literature and psuedo-Neuroscience* scholar interviewee (interviewed by one Dr. Luke Martin with his Creed & Culture show. He sounds Scottish). The books are The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World and The Matter With Things: Our Brains, Our Delusions, and the Unmaking of the World. (The former book sounds from the title that readers of it may also be familiar with Julian Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind.**
In this video Dr. McGilhrist discusses left-brain vs right-brain thinking. There's something to this, my right brain says, but my left brain doesn't care that awfully much. That was harsh, so I'll add that my left brain says that there's obviously something to this, medically, from what I've read. Dr. McGilchrist talks about evidence of the difference from psychiatric patients.
Well, there's a nice introduction first, as Dr. McGilchrist gives his background, first as an art/literature type, then going to Med School at 28 y/o -where brain hemispheric differences weren't taught other than that the left hemisphere does the thinking, and becoming a Psychiatrist.
He then describes how, first from a discussion with a colleague, and then his own studies, it turns out that people who have had strokes of the right hemisphere have it harder rehabilitating themselves than those whose strokes damaged the left side. This is not about the physical effects so much as the mental.
Then, Dr. McGilchrist goes over some very interesting Evolutionary Psychology, starting before humans, to explain why the hemispheres evolved to work differently, which is unlike most of our limbs, eyeballs, what-have you. I didn't understand all this completely, but it was interesting enough. He continues by describing the differences between the "machine"-like left hemisphere, processing very specific details, and the right hemisphere that is all-encompassing and, well, in his opinion, a much better half. ("I'd like you to meet my better half. He does tend to recite a lot of random poetry ...") A key point here is that he sees the modern world as only respecting the work of the left brain.
The talk (mostly by Dr. McGilchrist) gets into various writers, poets, philosophers and pundits around the world - yes, Dieter's favorite, Jordan Peterson is mentioned - and their use of the capability of which of the 2 hemispheres. I can't go through all that.
At 27 to 29 minutes in, roughly, the talk gets into the current not-very-good direction society is headed. I can agree with the assessment, but this guy's explanation of why people much unhappier than 30, 40 years ago is not very thorough, a real right-brain job, I'd say. ;-}. Until he gets near the end, when he talks about religion, Dr. McGilchrist concentrates solely on the Feminist destruction of male and female roles as the cause for the decrease in happiness. That is most certainly a factor, and I'm glad he brought that up. However, that most people live in continuous debt to keep up, that they are forced to live among people very unlike them (what does the right brain understand about that?), that all manner of freedoms have been taken away by The State are not problems he mentioned. Behind it all, one's left brain must put some effort into figuring out how this all happened. Dr. McGilchrist does not get down to that level. This sex role stuff just occured because we've changed... As the man said, c'mon, man.
The discussion didn't take into account of any of the actual political changes that our left brains can keep track of pretty well. (Mine sure can!)
Here's the video, finally:
That's all I have for a review, but I wanted to add to this discussion a very visible example of the brain hemisphere differences. With respect to this blog's long-running, on-again-off-again, likely-becoming-defunct series of Trump v DeSantis posts (see here), this addendum could be considered Round 11.
You may recall that in Round 10 Peak Stupidity described how lame Ron DeSantis' job in dealing with a heckler was compared to Donald Trump's. It's not that Gov. DeSantis didn't have a good comeback. It just took 15 seconds is all.
Maybe it's just that Trump is an expert showman and campaigner, while DeSantis is neither. My opinion is that Ron DeSantis is a smarter man than Donald Trump. The latter is important for someone who IS President, but the former for someone who's trying to be (again). DeSantis can settle down and think strategically. He wins like that - see his defeat of Big Mouse for an example. That's left brain kinda work.
In the meantime, back to this one example from the campaign, Trump's right-brain, as a retort to the hecklers, comes up with "Go home to your Mommy!" I'm sorry, as a person relying on the left-brain as far as I know, it pains me to say this, but that's freaking great! I cannot help but laugh each Trump says that.
Then, there's the bird brain. Enough said.
* He talks Neuroscience but does not consider himself an actual Neuroscientist. He doesn't know all the physiology, I imagine, which is a left brain thing...
** I got about 1/3 through it but was not very convinced with his whole theory.
Comments:
Moderator
Tuesday - March 5th 2024 7:25PM MST
PS: I didn't see your comments under this post until just now, Dieter... still reading. Thanks for writing in!
Dieter Kief
Tuesday - March 5th 2024 1:04AM MST
PS
Mod. you touched the red hot center of the Iain McGilchrrsit vid, and I liked to read your post - thx.!
(I was offline for a few days).
What Iain McGilchrist does most is to hint at two fundamentally wrong aspects of our public debate: One is, that it does not work to let the left hemisphere of the brain simply have its way, because it tends to adds up things/ aspects / singularities and erects a "fun-house mirror cabinet" (RU) of facts and factoids.
The most important differentiation here might be this: For our left hemisphere facts and factoids are the same.
The left hemisphere does not differentiate between reasonable ways to handle facts and unreasonable ones, because it is strongestly wired to help us grab things: To .d.o.m.in.a.t.e. (being successful in getting pray/ things to eat = left hemisphere. Our survival machine).
The right hemisphere on the other hand is moody - and bluesy too: It constitutes the Moody Blues of our existence. It is full of (be)longing, charme, fantasy, ...
It honors the higher ideals/ longings/ - the fields of beauty / of belonging.
The left hemisphere knows belonging only in the .c.o.l.d. form, which implies - - dominance (see JB Petersons famous Lobster-chapter in twelver rule for live - - - the lobster brain is millions of years older than our brain but shares the same (!) basic structure that - guides (makes up! - constitutes!) our will.
So: No way around it: Right hemisphere is where the non-dominant form of religion is happening; and love too; including our love for music, dance, and all these .n.i.c.e. things. Stever Sailer is in this respect a strong believer in the right hemisphere***.
***for those maybe not that familiar with Dr. Steve's - öh: Preferences (main go-to-points/ aspects/ topics): One of his foremost topics is how it has become harder and harder these days to have / notice / appreciatiate: Nice things. A chapter in The Sailer Book of Ages*** could be titled: Nice-ivities, - - - - hehe.
***see - - - - -Deep Purple - In Rock // and Deaf Leppard - - Rock of Ages
PS
Dr. Steve's title combines left- and right brain strategies in that it focuses on an .e.le.g.a.n.t. way to deal with facts: By noticing them - taking notes - as opposed to simply register them***.
****there is a whole discourse already about the right way to - essayistically - -deal with the world, of course.
It starts with the invention of the essay by the here often mentioned before by yourÄs truely: -
- French nobleman and politician and hommes des lettres (genius) Michel Eyquem de Montaigne. - And from Montaigne there is a - clear! - - trace leading up to opium eater and haschisch-smoker and Stalin-adorer (sigh) and - essayist - - Walter Benjamin.
And I want to end this little PS here with a Walter Benjamin paraphrase, that is about the quality of the elegant way to register things: The most important points (the big points) we writers score whenst we score left-handedly!
Note: Our left hand is steered by - - - the right hemisphere.
Howgh.
Mod. you touched the red hot center of the Iain McGilchrrsit vid, and I liked to read your post - thx.!
(I was offline for a few days).
What Iain McGilchrist does most is to hint at two fundamentally wrong aspects of our public debate: One is, that it does not work to let the left hemisphere of the brain simply have its way, because it tends to adds up things/ aspects / singularities and erects a "fun-house mirror cabinet" (RU) of facts and factoids.
The most important differentiation here might be this: For our left hemisphere facts and factoids are the same.
The left hemisphere does not differentiate between reasonable ways to handle facts and unreasonable ones, because it is strongestly wired to help us grab things: To .d.o.m.in.a.t.e. (being successful in getting pray/ things to eat = left hemisphere. Our survival machine).
The right hemisphere on the other hand is moody - and bluesy too: It constitutes the Moody Blues of our existence. It is full of (be)longing, charme, fantasy, ...
It honors the higher ideals/ longings/ - the fields of beauty / of belonging.
The left hemisphere knows belonging only in the .c.o.l.d. form, which implies - - dominance (see JB Petersons famous Lobster-chapter in twelver rule for live - - - the lobster brain is millions of years older than our brain but shares the same (!) basic structure that - guides (makes up! - constitutes!) our will.
So: No way around it: Right hemisphere is where the non-dominant form of religion is happening; and love too; including our love for music, dance, and all these .n.i.c.e. things. Stever Sailer is in this respect a strong believer in the right hemisphere***.
***for those maybe not that familiar with Dr. Steve's - öh: Preferences (main go-to-points/ aspects/ topics): One of his foremost topics is how it has become harder and harder these days to have / notice / appreciatiate: Nice things. A chapter in The Sailer Book of Ages*** could be titled: Nice-ivities, - - - - hehe.
***see - - - - -Deep Purple - In Rock // and Deaf Leppard - - Rock of Ages
PS
Dr. Steve's title combines left- and right brain strategies in that it focuses on an .e.le.g.a.n.t. way to deal with facts: By noticing them - taking notes - as opposed to simply register them***.
****there is a whole discourse already about the right way to - essayistically - -deal with the world, of course.
It starts with the invention of the essay by the here often mentioned before by yourÄs truely: -
- French nobleman and politician and hommes des lettres (genius) Michel Eyquem de Montaigne. - And from Montaigne there is a - clear! - - trace leading up to opium eater and haschisch-smoker and Stalin-adorer (sigh) and - essayist - - Walter Benjamin.
And I want to end this little PS here with a Walter Benjamin paraphrase, that is about the quality of the elegant way to register things: The most important points (the big points) we writers score whenst we score left-handedly!
Note: Our left hand is steered by - - - the right hemisphere.
Howgh.
Dieter Kief
Sunday - March 3rd 2024 12:26PM MST
PS
Mod.just a quick response to this remark of yours
Iain McGilchrist "talks Neuroscience but does not consider himself and actual Neuroscientist. He doesn't know all the physiology, I imagine, which is a left brain thing..."
1) Nobody knows all the physiology of the brain. It is the mega-complex thing - even cpmpared to the universe. - It is one of the most complex known things to this date.
2) What is more. There is lots more to know about the brain aside from physiology.
As bottom line: Iain McGilchrist seems to know more than necessary to make the claims he makes.
Even more aside than the above: I follow the reception of Ian McGilchrist's ideas and find very little brought up against him on the basis of pure brain science. What he says in this regard is mostly well respected. His ideas about the brain are not so much about the brain than about our culture at large. Here is it that he scores the big points.
Ron DeSantis is - according to Mr. Sailer's research - a moderately high IQ person - 128. My guess about Trump would be: Higher (I assume that Jordan B. Peterson thinks about Trumps raw intelleigence ca. the same way).
There were much brighter US Presidents than Ron DeSantis would be one.And .l.e.s.s. brighter ones than he would be one. I guess his IQ level is sufficient to be a good president. Whether or not this hypothesis has any predictive value, we might see - - - after Trump. R D'S was not bright enough to understand that this is the - political - lay of the land. But is seems as if he would have learned that - over time. - Which is a good sign beacause it measn that he has learned a tough (maybe even bitter) lesson, which I'd highly appreciate.
Mod.just a quick response to this remark of yours
Iain McGilchrist "talks Neuroscience but does not consider himself and actual Neuroscientist. He doesn't know all the physiology, I imagine, which is a left brain thing..."
1) Nobody knows all the physiology of the brain. It is the mega-complex thing - even cpmpared to the universe. - It is one of the most complex known things to this date.
2) What is more. There is lots more to know about the brain aside from physiology.
As bottom line: Iain McGilchrist seems to know more than necessary to make the claims he makes.
Even more aside than the above: I follow the reception of Ian McGilchrist's ideas and find very little brought up against him on the basis of pure brain science. What he says in this regard is mostly well respected. His ideas about the brain are not so much about the brain than about our culture at large. Here is it that he scores the big points.
Ron DeSantis is - according to Mr. Sailer's research - a moderately high IQ person - 128. My guess about Trump would be: Higher (I assume that Jordan B. Peterson thinks about Trumps raw intelleigence ca. the same way).
There were much brighter US Presidents than Ron DeSantis would be one.And .l.e.s.s. brighter ones than he would be one. I guess his IQ level is sufficient to be a good president. Whether or not this hypothesis has any predictive value, we might see - - - after Trump. R D'S was not bright enough to understand that this is the - political - lay of the land. But is seems as if he would have learned that - over time. - Which is a good sign beacause it measn that he has learned a tough (maybe even bitter) lesson, which I'd highly appreciate.
Adam Smith
Friday - March 1st 2024 12:36PM MST
PS: No worries, Mr. Moderator,
I'm just glad it's working.
I am a little curious as to why it doesn't work on the computer in question. (But please don't waste any time trying to figure it out. Some things just are what they are.)
Mega.nz is slow, but it does work. I like that it never (so far anyway) expires. Some of these free file hosting sites will close an account for inactivity, often in just a month or so. Sometimes I won't log into an account for quite a while, so automatically expiring accounts really don't work for me.
Happy Friday! ☮️
I'm just glad it's working.
I am a little curious as to why it doesn't work on the computer in question. (But please don't waste any time trying to figure it out. Some things just are what they are.)
Mega.nz is slow, but it does work. I like that it never (so far anyway) expires. Some of these free file hosting sites will close an account for inactivity, often in just a month or so. Sometimes I won't log into an account for quite a while, so automatically expiring accounts really don't work for me.
Happy Friday! ☮️
Moderator
Friday - March 1st 2024 12:21PM MST
PS: Sorry about that, Mr. Smith. I got on a different device to check - I'll do that next time I run into that. This computer is not mine - very fast but it doesn't like security or other workarounds.
Postscript removed, and I added your link to the other book. Thanks again.
Postscript removed, and I added your link to the other book. Thanks again.
Moderator
Friday - March 1st 2024 12:14PM MST
PS: I'm just using Mr. Trump's right-brain induced term for Nikki, Alarmist. Hare Brained has yet another meaning though. Then there's Hair Brained.
Moderator
Friday - March 1st 2024 12:12PM MST
PS: You know what, Mr. Smith, it might be the computer I'm on right now. If a 3rd party would check for us, we can figure this out.
I'll remove that PS, if they're good - and I need to add your link to the Julian Jaynes book too.
I'll remove that PS, if they're good - and I need to add your link to the Julian Jaynes book too.
Adam Smith
Friday - March 1st 2024 11:54AM MST
PS: Good afternoon, everyone!
“PS: Rats, Adam's links no workie. He has warned us that these links to the actual on-line books don't always last long…”
Say it ain’t so, Mr. Moderator. Say it ain’t so.
I tried the links, and they're working for me. Sometimes mega is slow, like really slow... Maybe that's what it was? Or perhaps is was just farting out for a spell like peakstupidity was for a little while this morning. Sometimes the interwebs just do that.
Anyway, if there is a continued problem with hosting files on mega.nz I'll look for a new and better alternative.
Cheers! ☮️
“PS: Rats, Adam's links no workie. He has warned us that these links to the actual on-line books don't always last long…”
Say it ain’t so, Mr. Moderator. Say it ain’t so.
I tried the links, and they're working for me. Sometimes mega is slow, like really slow... Maybe that's what it was? Or perhaps is was just farting out for a spell like peakstupidity was for a little while this morning. Sometimes the interwebs just do that.
Anyway, if there is a continued problem with hosting files on mega.nz I'll look for a new and better alternative.
Cheers! ☮️
Peak Stupidity Book Club
Friday - March 1st 2024 11:50AM MST
PS: Good afternoon, Mr. Moderator...
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (4.1mb .pdf)
https://tinyurl.com/yvj4a72w
☮️
The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (4.1mb .pdf)
https://tinyurl.com/yvj4a72w
☮️
The Alarmist
Friday - March 1st 2024 11:39AM MST
PS
Why not Hare Brained?
Why not Hare Brained?
Yes, I agree on this, Dieter. I only included that footnote to keep the bio info. correct. (I'd first thought he was an "official" Neuroscientist.) (Fixed m typo too - "an", not "and" - I do that too much.)
Regarding the IQ of Presidents and such, I DON'T think it's the most important thing. I wrote that I think DeSantis is smarter, but I should have written "more capable" because he "thinks better". (That'd mean using his left-brain to ITS capabilities.) Maybe you don't have to have a 120+ IQ to think strategy - keeping a LOT of things in your heard - such as "OK, if we can get this one additional ally, by helping his campaign, on the Board of Directors of the Universities, when the time comes we'll have the votes to kill the DIE program.*"
* ... which just happened, by the way!